From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 20 07:11:15 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLM21-0006CF-Ni for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:10:53 -0800 Received: from web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.120]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLM20-0006C5-KA for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:10:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 21343 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 15:10:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=s8+BHX/mwkOGcrMpFoI5r/+o4gmk6pvRLuQxvESHPs2EgEUrWH1jgLSNSGAYhjBACAma4GqZMEFCsuriO/M1AifSmUM+qeV4mw+KaJuFBquD7SoXRgNzT5iSJ03c/fMRk/tlkoLntj+qEKTAllA4We2NiNwFAkPXMyl/TWN1qiU= ; Message-ID: <20060320151051.21341.qmail@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:10:51 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:10:51 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <925d17560603200620p545c9378td765419f5bcda51c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11177 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 3/20/06, John E Clifford > wrote: > > All the hypothetical cases "if someone were > > looking toward the mountain, then the ball > would > > be on the tree's right" and so on. > > That would be: > > le bolci cu drani le tricu lo catlu be le > cmana {pritu} not {drani}, i.e., wrong right. But this does not solve the problem since it is either false or nonsense in the situation described: there is not, ex hypothesi, such a thing as lo catlu be le cmana. Now, we can make {pritu3} opaque, but that does not seem right, as that would seem to require only abstractions here or else it would be unmarked, which is inappropriate for a logical language. Actually, on second thought, requiring an abstraction (an event or a property perhaps) doesn't sound too bad, certainly better than an unmarked opaque (although Lojban still has a few, mainly from mistaken place structures from subject raising). > > There is > > apparently no such person and yet the > location is > > clear. > > Yes. > > (As long as you assume that the someone is on > the same side > of the mountain as the ball and the tree, which > would be a natural > assumption. You can of course be more precise > if need be, at the > expense of more wordiness.) > Yes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.