From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 21 07:10:47 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLiV9-0002pC-1k for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:27 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLiV5-0002p3-Ek for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:26 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so1289112wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:20 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=l1o/nBOVIlurZnATGLqAwxWohxGPEPWX96Y3sC7Mp0oxNycni0DOvpLmaItqSUS6dS/72tOdRCqys+LjFxwZpCzT1fwzyoPFiJyZli5GD+GxqM5qt/1srBJCOVmPRdMkmCshFtolZx5yBjQR9icz+xZo/cUZQk9Nps/za4lUYcc= Received: by 10.54.113.16 with SMTP id l16mr4304095wrc; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.67.10 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603210710q38c0551bn92ac7959151deb2b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:19 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes In-Reply-To: <2cd.54bcf2d.314c0871@wmconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2cd.54bcf2d.314c0871@wmconnect.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11197 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 3/17/06, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > I'd like to see definitions of Lojban words in Anna Wierzbicka's Natural > Semantic Metalanguage (NSM) terms, as well as definitions of Lojban words in > the Lojban version of NSM. You can find something along that direction in the Lojban-Lojban section of jbovlaste. Here are Wierzbicka's proposed semantic primes in English (as of 2002), taken from and how they might go into Lojban: Substantives: I, YOU, SOMEONE, PEOPLE, SOMETHING/THING, BODY I: mi YOU: do SOMEONE: lo pa prenu PEOPLE: lo prenu SOMETHING/THING: lo pa dacti BODY: lo pa xadni It is not clear to me whether SOMETHING/THING is meant to be as restricted as {lo pa dacti} or as general as {da/de/di}. Determiners: THIS, THE SAME, OTHER THIS: Nothing strictly equivalent, but {vi} as in {lo vi broda} comes closest. THE SAME: {mintu} (but not really a determiner) OTHER: {drata} (but not really a determiner) Quantifiers: ONE, TWO, SOME, ALL, MANY/MUCH ONE: pa TWO: re SOME: su'o ALL: ro MANY/MUCH: so'i / pi so'i Evaluators: GOOD, BAD GOOD: xamgu (zabna) BAD: xlali (mabla) ( I think zabna/mabla should be the primes in Lojban, but xamgu/xlali are the direct translations.) Descriptors: BIG, SMALL BIG: barda SMALL: cmalu Intensifier: VERY: mutce Mental predicates: THINK, KNOW, WANT, FEEL, SEE, HEAR THINK: pensi/jinvi KNOW: djuno/se slabu WANT: djica FEEL: cinmo/ganse SEE: viska HEAR: tirna (It's hard to decide without context which one she sees as the prime meaning in the cases of THINK, KNOW and FEEL.) Speech: SAY, WORDS, TRUE SAY: cusku WORDS: valsi TRUE: jetnu Actions, events, movement, contact: DO, HAPPEN, MOVE, TOUCH DO: zukte HAPPEN: fasnu MOVE: muvdu TOUCH: pencu (although {muvdu} only works for change in location, not for movement in general) Existence and possession: THERE IS / EXIST, HAVE These don't have any accurate Lojban equivalents. It depends too much on the context. Life and death: LIVE, DIE LIVE: jmive DIE: mrobi'o (Notice that DIE is not a primitive in Lojban.) Time: WHEN/TIME, NOW, BEFORE, AFTER, A LONG TIME, A SHORT TIME, FOR SOME TIME, MOMENT WHEN/TIME: ca NOW: nau/ca ({nau} includes "here", {ca} is more general) BEFORE: pu AFTER: ba A LONG TIME: ze'u/zu (depending on whether it's a duration or a displacement) A SHORT TIME: ze'i/zi FOR SOME TIME: ze'a MOMENT: mokca (more or less) Space: WHERE/PLACE, HERE, ABOVE, BELOW; FAR, NEAR; SIDE, INSIDE; TOUCHING WHERE/PLACE: bu'u (although many Lojbanists use {vi}) HERE: nau (Also {ti}, {vi} depending on context.) ABOVE: ga'u BELOW: na'i FAR: vu NEAR: vi SIDE: te'e/ze'o/ne'a INSIDE: ne'i TOUCHING: re'o "Logical" concepts: NOT, MAYBE, CAN, BECAUSE, IF NOT: na MAYBE: ju'o cu'i CAN: ka'e / kakne BECAUSE: ki'u / ri'a / mu'i / ni'i IF: ganai... gi..., but with lots of warnings Augmentor: VERY, MORE VERY: mutce MORE: zmadu Taxonomy, partonomy: KIND OF, PART OF KIND OF: klesi PART OF: pagbu Similarity: LIKE: simsa mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.