From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Mar 22 08:46:50 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM6Tg-0007Du-PL for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:32 -0800 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM6Te-0007Dm-7e for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:32 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n29so209405nzf for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=MQO08au7FjvmteAKFu/AevjMle4c8JdQP0U//8LkoYDvsMZVITC1gp7N4pdpVJiHhAiCbDXrZ68GpKXVhIacZx64UL+KXRmVmHn030+MNAH84cOLBzYdam9zDrwyhnoquU28elVoxqO1NW2cd8zv9rJUDcZoAWdVQla8qVJ9EFw= Received: by 10.36.13.12 with SMTP id 12mr794009nzm; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from caroe1 ( [65.218.132.157]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 16sm1632017nzo.2006.03.22.08.46.25; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <06da01c64dd0$0d62c170$a0d2400a@caroe1> From: "Betsemes" To: References: <06bc01c64dc3$3be85080$a0d2400a@caroe1> <200603221115.38252.phma@phma.optus.nu> Subject: [lojban] Re: A comment on one of my jboselkei translations Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:45:37 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-archive-position: 11217 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: betsemes@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Pierre, that's something that was bugging me for a while; how be and pe differ from each other when used in these constructions. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Abbat" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: [lojban] Re: A comment on one of my jboselkei translations > On Wednesday 22 March 2006 10:13, Betsemes wrote: > > I have a question. I was under the impression that when we add a spatial > > tense followed by a sumti, we are really adding a tense sumti that applies > > to the entire bridi. So I thought that here {pa'o} applied to the event of > > seeing instead of applying to just one of the sumtis (the girl); and I was > > under the impression that in order for it to apply to the girl, it should > > have been written as {mi viska lo lunbe nixli pe pa'o lo canko be lo ragve > > dinju ca le cabycerni} thus associating the tense directly to the sumti. > > How is this incorrect? > > {mi viska lo nixli pa'o lo canko} means that the seeing goes through the > window. {mi viska lo nixli be pa'o lo canko} and {mi viska lo nixli pe pa'o > lo canko} both mean that the girl is through the window. The last two > constructions differ in meaning when the selgadri itself denotes an action > that can go through something: > {mi viska lo renro pa'o lo canko}: A window is between me and a thrower, and I > see the thrower through it. > {mi viska lo renro be pa'o lo canko}: Someone throws something through a > window, and I see him. > {mi viska lo renro pe pa'o lo canko}: Someone is caught in a window, and I see > him throw something. > {mi viska lo renro be pa'o lo canko be'o pe pa'o lo canko pa'o lo canko}: I > see someone through the window throw something through the window through the > window. > > > I also didn't think that a past tense tag was necessary because of the {ca > > le cabycerni} tense sumti. Am I wrong? > > It isn't necessary. It isn't necessary even without it; tense is optional in > Lojban. > > phma > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.