From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 27 13:16:03 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNz3w-0007Oa-Rt for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:15:44 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.232]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNz3u-0007OQ-Lo for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:15:44 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i22so1103634wra for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:15:41 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YiA41MBoyS/UpgY7gIXOJzNXq2ZT9MJH7QXYHj0SlPV/0y3b5pPGT0knrIe1wdRBF+OUwebjBu+uJauWpV7/Gpto5pk8pDYL1+jOSbw6edXalnVY2Iab2wlgOnkoa67DD9i9lJjr7cRyxrVrmkIywftKmJ85w0/Kx3CG5x6S3kA= Received: by 10.54.141.13 with SMTP id o13mr864723wrd; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.13 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:15:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603271315gd1d2807ga19b76c54174030a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:15:40 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything In-Reply-To: <20060327192059.92630.qmail@web81312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560603270842p567d03faw108b925add61491@mail.gmail.com> <20060327192059.92630.qmail@web81312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11260 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 3/27/06, John E Clifford wrote: > --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > > On 3/27/06, John E Clifford: > > > > > > I have always thought the "opinion" part of > > > {jinvi} was peripheral in a sense; > > > > Given the x4 of {jinvi} (the "grounds") it is > > hard to see how it could be peripheral. > > Well, since opinions don't require evidence, I > never could get those two together. Perhaps opinions don't require evidence, but it is at least not unusual, when someone offers an opinion, to ask for the grounds on which it is based. OTOH, asking what grounds one has for thinking about someone, for example, sounds just bizarre. Also "opine" is given as the gloss for {jinvi} and "opinion" for the x2, so opinion does seem to be the intended central meaning of {jinvi}. > > mi pensi lo nu lo xarju cu vofli > > I think of an event of pigs flying. > > But what do you think of it? This always seems > elliptical to me. I can think of flying pigs without thinking anything of it, and I don't think this is a special ability of mine. More commonly, I can think of a person for example without thinking anything in particular about them. > > > Or > > > do you want that {pensi2} is for > > propositional > > > content (which would eliminate a raft of > > > problems)? > > > > No, I think pensi is fine as it is, but that it > > is not for opinions. > > I didn't say anything about opinions: I can think > content without necessarily affirming it (indeed, > the need for that other pattern is why I have > trouble with {jinvi} as opinion). I don't see a problem with using {pensi} for thinking of any kind of content, propositional or not. Even things like: mi pensi lo nu mi te vecnu lo karce I am thinking of (I am considering) buying a car. Sometimes the NSM prime THINK is used that way, but sometimes it is also used for opinions. So THINK is a blend of {pensi} and {jinvi}. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.