From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Mar 29 05:51:49 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOb55-0006qM-K8 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:27 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.232]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOb51-0006qD-6H for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:27 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so172555wri for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:21 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pUcpJgHqmFcJJ62QI7JH3Hfw8qlsBadGm6DxFJWELTY8ioEblelZkrdFI1R33hQ40/7XIlIrgfG6ZWRulWQoFEa0i7se5iRvCwIW879O1sbw860tL7tVj19MrB+ibTgYwS1O2CeiX6BOYuGLEb6PRELa0/QMS9AksiYD9xSIByA= Received: by 10.54.110.18 with SMTP id i18mr904581wrc; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.66.5 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:51:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603290551j17972b82wd0f4b0b2572f3ff4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:19 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: NMS: glosses and YOU In-Reply-To: <20060328213016.26645.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560603280817i1a37608w8b763a62d8f85e53@mail.gmail.com> <20060328213016.26645.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11277 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 3/28/06, John E Clifford wrote: > >From what I have read, I gather that the usual > response in these kinds of cases is to claim > allolexy: that the manifestation of a prime may > be in different lexical items conditioned by the > situation. According to this: "the term "allolexy" was coined to designate situations in which several different words or word-forms (allolexes) express a single meaning in complementary contexts." "a claim of allolexy hinges entirely on a claim that the expressions which are supposed to be in an allolexical relationship do not differ in meaning in any paraphrasable way." So, "tú" and "usted" are not really allolexes. They can both occur in the same contexts (unlike, for example "I" and "me" which occur in complementary contexts: in this case syntax forces the choice of which one to use, not semantics). > In the instant case, I assume that > YOU is represented by "tu" in informal situations > between intimates (and real or implied major > differences in rank) and "usted" elsewhere (and I > suppose there are other details I haven't > covered). There is huge variation from place to place and even from person to person. Another major factor is age difference (for example, I would hardly ever use "usted" to address someone of about my age or younger). But in any case, both forms are always grammatical and the choice between them is not determined by syntax. Saying that they are allolexes is like saying that "he" and "she" are allolexes in English. They obviously differ in meaning in a paraphrasable way. > This seems to me to be a bit of a > cop-out, but, if the conditions can really be > specified, is in line with Linguistics in other > areas. The conditions for the choice between "he" and "she" are relatively much easier to specify than between "tú" and "usted". Does that make "he" and "she" allolexes for a "third person singular pronoun" meaning? mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.