From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun May 07 17:56:45 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 07 May 2006 17:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fcu30-0001Ge-7j for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 07 May 2006 17:56:26 -0700 Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fcu2v-0001G5-8L for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 07 May 2006 17:56:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DAC1EBCB3 for ; Mon, 8 May 2006 07:56:16 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00664-04 for ; Mon, 8 May 2006 07:56:13 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mail.211.ru (mail [10.5.1.2]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id C892EEBCA5 for ; Mon, 8 May 2006 07:56:13 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from host-102-2-129.211.ru (host-102-2-129.211.ru [10.102.2.129]) by mail.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1995C15 for ; Mon, 8 May 2006 07:56:12 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 07:56:10 +0700 From: Yanis Batura X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.30) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <968279771.20060508075610@mail.ru> To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] More {lo}/{le} questions In-Reply-To: <925d17560605071522j4dd115e3o926fefd677799e53@mail.gmail.com> References: <925d17560605060934q5a2b6172t6f3826feae787599@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605061531j68fc5d28h65b798fa9eda5703@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605061852y63ba2990lb04dc252f3eb6f0f@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605070758u5e187557u331c39056f29fe51@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605071522j4dd115e3o926fefd677799e53@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------ECD61C9003BA7" X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-archive-position: 11429 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------------ECD61C9003BA7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit coi ro lojbo darlu la lojban. banli 1) Couldn't the difference between {lo} and {le} be expressed like this: {le} indicates that the meaning of the sumti depends on the context [of the speaker, of conversation / situation etc.] {lo} indicates that the meaning of the sumti does not depend on the context (is universal, applicable to every context) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Isn't {da} an inconcrete version of {lo}, and {zo'e} - of {le}? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Are there ways to express this elusive difference (between {lo} and {le} sumti) for selbri? Example: fagri Fire! It means that the speaker is seeing or however experiencing the event of fire burning on some fuel in the air, i. e. it is the fire the speaker has in mind, so this selbri is more to the {le-} than to the {lo-} (I hope you understand me). Is there any way to say the same but with universal meaning, like "Exists!" in the philosophical sense? mi'e .ianis. ------------ECD61C9003BA7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

coi ro lojbo darlu la lojban. banli

1) Couldn't the difference between {lo} and {le} be expressed like this:

{le} indicates that the meaning of the sumti depends on the context [of the speaker, of conversation / situation etc.]

{lo} indicates that the meaning of the sumti does not depend on the context (is universal, applicable to every context)

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2) Isn't {da} an inconcrete version of {lo}, and {zo'e} - of {le}?

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3) Are there ways to express this elusive difference (between {lo} and {le} sumti) for selbri?

Example:

fagri

Fire!

It means that the speaker is seeing or however experiencing the event of fire burning on some fuel in the air, i. e. it is the fire the speaker has in mind, so this selbri is more to the {le-} than to the {lo-} (I hope you understand me). Is there any way to say the same but with universal meaning, like "Exists!" in the philosophical sense?

mi'e .ianis.

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