From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 15 20:30:50 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfqGW-0001t2-BK for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:32 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.194]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfqGT-0001ss-6y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:32 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 13so4629nzp for ; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bORLOlXrlEo6XmwTRegswuhILyxTk0hIMl3gxPyuDDOVYtGIzLeAoMYOEMqmuaxrE1dU6EtGI4Rr+cTBdX72/sahj3BiXeyhVd78m0kADjTAf2DccEGMotTe33vrgn46FlDj9Sx/IdgkyfploQOzQsId56MBu523Zz034iV05WU= Received: by 10.64.149.10 with SMTP id w10mr4208137qbd; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.249.4 with HTTP; Mon, 15 May 2006 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 23:30:26 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "democracy" vs "representative republic" in lojban? In-Reply-To: <20060515221217.40402.qmail@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <1147886402.24497.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060515221217.40402.qmail@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 11554 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 5/15/06, Ryan Gray wrote: > Hi, I hope someone in this forum can help me use > lojban to clarify a point. In another forum, there is > a debate about the difference between "democracy" and > "representative republic." One faction seems to > believe that any form of government that elects its > leaders is a "democracy. Another faction (the one I am > partial to) argues that, by definition, a democracy > does not have any protections for individual rights > and the "will of the people" rules the day regardless > of whose rights are trampled upon. The argument in > this faction is that in a democracy a majority of > cannibals could vote to eat a minority of vegetarians. > No ones rights would be protected. How would one make > this distinction in lojban? > > Thank you, > > Ryan > Ryan, The debate they are having is a debate about the meaning of an English word-- it is a debate about the English language instead of a debate about democracy. No other language can help you. In Lojban you could create two very specific words for these two separate meanings, and begin to use them. But that would not settle the confusion they experience with the English word "democracy", because they are English speakers and would continue to mean different things by it. The word means what people are thinking when they say it and hear it, so it has many varieties of nuance in its various meanings. The origin does not change that fact about words, so not even ancient Greek can help. The only way Lojban can help is if you go back to the list and declare that from now on you will not use the word "democracy" since you do not wish to be misunderstood. For pure democracy (that is to say, in which every issue is voted on by everyone and majority rules), you will henceforth say {roltrusi'o} and you ask that they understand it as such. When you use the word {rolka'itrusi'o} you ask to be understood to mean representative democracy. -epkat To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.