From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue May 16 19:26:41 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBjz-00009s-J3 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:23 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBjx-00009e-4N for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:23 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i21so107114wra for ; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ddJId0RVisM8VM6WX3GM3yk5cAYtpP7UZPGLJx4nrRuHra8o3F0lGIndGMG3DW0MrHMyrjEkR1djPIXoB3eJ8jYmgHLQTPl1phTQb3NL6w2CaVbx6cz9gkxYBNvvmnFt4u7dyRb6oIruJprrBNvj/JuJ2YwCAZOtHYscLVyX1j4= Received: by 10.54.108.6 with SMTP id g6mr1848713wrc; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.126.17 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605161926idd869edob46420890931876e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 23:26:19 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: X-bar, chomsky and lojban In-Reply-To: <446A7B47.9070002@v21.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <57995.192.94.94.105.1147732061.squirrel@www.thebranchhearth.net> <446A29E5.2020409@v21.me.uk> <925d17560605161255qed5f1aeu4918d7b322f35bd0@mail.gmail.com> <446A3F84.4000006@v21.me.uk> <925d17560605161604u234fe121u7a9338e8c4ed9e9e@mail.gmail.com> <446A7B47.9070002@v21.me.uk> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11579 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 5/16/06, And Rosta wrote: > > For syntactic reasons. I.e. KU is head of KU-phrase. LE > is head of LE-phrase, which is complement of KU-phrase. > Selbri is head of Selbri-Phrase, which is complement of > LE-phrase. > > The rationale is that KU-phrase = the distributionally defined > class normally called 'sumti'. Then KU-phrase can have any > of a range of complements (LE, LA, KOhA, etc. etc.). KOhA and LA CMENE cannot take a {ku} though. Is the idea that in those cases the KU-phrase is always realized as null? > In the alternative analysis (in which KU is complement > of LE), you would not be able to dispense with the > class 'Sumti' and you'd have to define it disjunctively, > as "LE-phrase, or LA-phrase, or KohA-phrase, or ...". > Which is much more inelegant. Here's an argument for the alternative analysis in which Selbri-phrase is complement of KU-phrase and KU-phrase is complement of LE-phrase: Relative clauses can appear in three positions in a sumti, as marked by the stars: le * broda * ku * If we take the relative-clause as a complement of the KU-phrase then all three can be accounted for if the Selbri-phrase is also a complement of the KU-phrase. But if the Selbri-phrase is a comp[lement of the LE-phrase, then relative clauses have to be sometimes complement of the KU-phrase and sometimes a complement of something else (either of the LE-phrase or of the Selbri-phrase. > > I don't know if X-bar allows the head and the complement > > to be infixed/circumfixed to each other, but if it does then > > I think LE.../KU/ should be considered as one element and > > the inner selbri as the other element. > > No, this is not possible. I don't like X-bar for Lojban then. :) mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.