From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 05 19:34:10 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FnROC-0007UE-Me for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:33:52 -0700 Received: from mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.28.218]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FnRO9-0007U5-E1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:33:52 -0700 Received: from mxip33a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip33a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.248]) by mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k562XlAE010651 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:33:47 -0400 Received: from 24-247-28-251.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com (HELO [192.168.123.137]) ([24.247.28.251]) by mxip33a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 05 Jun 2006 22:33:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) In-Reply-To: References: <20060605202242.56556.qmail@web81315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7886206A-AE55-4E98-B39F-7493E7A2DBBB@umich.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alex Martini Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:33:44 -0400 To: lojban-list@lojban.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11740 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: alexjm@umich.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list >> > >> > I've read the first chapter of McKay's, and found that the author >> > confused several issues. For example, he states that Alice is not a >> > shipmate on her own, when she clearly is. She is shipmate of >> Bryce and >> > Carol, etc. because she is in the same group as them, and not a >> > shipmate of David and Erica, because they are of a different group. >> > >> > Two things regarding the suggestion. First, it seems that you think >> > that I don't understand how it works. I think that I do >> understand how >> > it works, it's just that I disagree with it. Second, I'm not >> arguing >> > with Quine, or McKay, because sadly they don't subscribe to this >> list. >> > I'm arguing with you and xorxes. I expect you to be able to argue >> > against my position as well as Quine or McKay would, otherwise you >> > really have no business arguing for or believing in their >> position. >> > If I show you to be wrong, you'll may just end up falling back >> on "oh, >> > well, that doesn't mean that Quine was wrong". >> > >> >> I beg to differ -- no person can ever be his own shipmate, any more >> than he can be his own sibling or classmate or anything else of that >> type. > > So? You can't be a kicker without a thing kicked, you can't be a > toucher without something to touch. In the same way, you can't be a > shipmate without another shipmate. However, Alice /has/ a shipmate. > McKay states > > " > "Arnie, Bob and Carlos are shipmates." This is something true of the > three of them together. We cannot say "Arnie is a shipmate" except > perhaps as elliptical for something that connects Arnie to others. > (Arnie is a shipmate of someone.) > " > > The problem with that is that we can say "Arnie is a shipmate". > There's no perhaps here. What we mean when we say "Arnie is a > shipmate" is that he's a shipmate of someone. > > [ li'o ] Sorry -- this is my mistake. Rereading your original, you wrote "Alice cannot be a shipmate ON her own". I misread this as "Alice cannot be a shipmate OF her own". To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.