From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 07 16:37:58 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fo7am-00042B-CU for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:37:40 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.235]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fo7ak-000424-88 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:37:40 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i5so480698wra for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:37:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=s2wfu+i7CIwNZHWvKpSjUF2+CccDa05t946QsX0twuw4IUDmTVLXnse30+d49C2gOMYZH80UV4HP4JVWMxNfrubUwbTqIL29T2xliRU+RHPgEcrZ3Hpg/+MRZf/2vP1pggJsDKfwPDp46elLRpXEhKkF2cbJ/45+kkt1g4Sf0p8= Received: by 10.65.176.12 with SMTP id d12mr1235751qbp; Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.19 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560606071637u1dfabac7n6e3551086a616f58@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:37:36 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060606175408.36256.qmail@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11760 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 6/7/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > On 6/7/06, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > mass/team/aggregate/whole, together composed of componets x2, considered > > jointly." It seems pretty clearly that x1 is a mass, and that x2 is a plural > > reference. > > No, it isn't a plural reference. It's a quite strictly a singular > reference when it's the expanded form. If a group is composed of Alice, Betty and Carrie jointly, it does not follow that the group is composed of Alice jointly. What could that mean? {gunma} does not mean "x1 has x2 as a member", that's {selcmi}. {gunma} means "x1 consists of x2". For example: le kamni cu gunma la alis jo'u la betis jo'u la karis "The committee consists of Alice, Betty and Carrie." It does not follow that the committee consists of Alice. le kamni cu selcmi la alis .e la betis .e la karis "The committee has Alice, Betty and Carrie as members." It does follow that the committee has Alice as member. The x2 of gunma is (normally) non-distributive and the x2 of selcmi is (normally) distributive. I say "normally" because the x2 of {gunma} can be distributive in another way: le kamni cu gunma lo nanmu .e ba bo lo ninmu The committee consisted of men and (later) of women. In this case, it does follow that the committee consisted of men, and also that it (at a later time) consisted of women. But it is not distributive for the men or for the women. The commitee never did consist of each of the men nor of each of the women. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.