From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 11 06:51:12 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpQL9-00085p-3g for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:50:55 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.177]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpQL6-00085f-2U for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:50:54 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x31so1430487pye for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=I+Q6Awh5519Q4AX6pvzbteNj6zTB/ot5mS4V5gEbySJsl7vEctikZdN5DnHQatoIf7/cAhLo6WcgQyofDqgpqyiaEe69PsbF5yfEs8j61jZmdD/EQZM57E8IE5JxRF/VMwHUjsXU90z8PFu6oq5P1km2BNW6pw2OErdjUFys3Yc= Received: by 10.35.121.2 with SMTP id y2mr2518355pym; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.14.7 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560606110650o59bf82e9ye037061cea611f6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:50:50 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560606080832j516fc7c9g7783a394f3d1074a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606090549k2275f466x7802ac6c9b6abfd3@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606090813o32d608e3pa4fef3f3190c0c4c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606100706j1b7f03bpb0a62b6ce99b613d@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11783 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 6/11/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > On 6/10/06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > An outermost quantifier is distributive, > > an outermost mass-marker is non-distributive. It's that simple. > > No doubt it's a simple rule, but the question is if it's the proper > way to describe how we communicate. It's a proper way to describe how I understand Lojban works. That's all I can offer you. > > la .alis .e la betis = ro le re prenu > > la .alis joi la betis = lei re prenu > > la .alis jo'u la betis = le re prenu > > Are you offering these definitions as suggestions, or > as explanations of how it really is? As explanations of how I understand them to work in Lojban. > So you would disagree that > > loi tadni cu sruri lo dinju > > expands to > > [da poi sruri lo dinju] cu gunma [lo tadni] > > which you had previously described as a legitimate interpretation, > yes? Using your place structure for {gunma} with distributive x2, I would disagree, yes. I agreed when I thought we were using {gunma} with the same meaning. > {loi tadni cu sruri lo skori} and {ro lo tadni cu > sruri lo skori} are different in some way, yes? Yes. > I'm asking you to explain the difference. I've already already done that. (And besides you understand the difference perfectly well.) > Alice is part of X > X surrounds the building > > Alice wears a hat > > Is the difference not apparent there? Yes. In the pluralist view one would say instead: Alice is one of X X surround the building In the singularist approach, X is a single thing, distinct from the things that surround the building and consisting of them, while in the plural approach X are many things, just those very things that surround the building. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.