From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 05 19:23:55 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FyJWj-0006Oj-Rt for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:23:37 -0700 Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([207.69.200.28]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FyJWh-0006Ob-Ln for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:23:37 -0700 Received: from user-1121phr.dialup.mindspring.com ([66.32.230.59] helo=thomas.mindspring.com) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FyJWg-0000k7-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:23:34 -0400 Received: from thomas (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by thomas.mindspring.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B76420B for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 10/15/1999 with nmh-1.0.4 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Final nails in the coffin In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jul 2006 13:00:20 EDT." <44ABF024.80705@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:23:19 -0400 From: Bob Slaughter Message-Id: <20060706022319.93B76420B@thomas.mindspring.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 11929 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rslau@mindspring.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list > John E Clifford wrote: > >... > > Psst. The curtain's down. The show's over. More for you than him. You see, John Clifford has been dealing with Loglan and Lojban longer *than you've likely been alive*. And he's provided valuable input over the years, contributing to the logical soundness of the language. Yep, sometimes he's a pain in the arse old-fart, but he's earned that right from many of us. For reference, see http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=John+Clifford&bl Excerpts: "John Clifford, aka John Parks-Clifford, aka pc, aka la pycyn., is the former Vice-President of the LLG, used to be the chief logician of TLI, and is our professional expert on logic. He occasionally writes record's to the list giving the final decision on hitherto unsettled points." "Taught at University of Missouri - St. Louis, 1967 - 2000: Logic (from Informal through Goedel Theory and Non-Standard)" "MA in Linguistics (field work on an Indian reservation in India), PhD in Philosophy (tense in language and logic -- scrapped Indian logic when the Sanscritist who knew some logic left) both at UCLA. Machine Translation project at RAND Corp, 1960-2 (and yes, I wrote Fortan 1 programs then)" "TLI: Editor of The Loglanist (la loglentan) 1976-84, Board Member 1980-4, VP 1980-2, President (but JCB was Chairman of the Board) 1982-4" [ Note that the above is for Loglan, the sort-of predecessor of Lojban. ] > Speaking for myself, I do *not* look forward to the next installment... > I hope it is a long time and a long way from here... that I could be so > lucky! Nor do I look forward to your next installment. You may not have meant to, but I feel you come across as yet another newbie with the "I just discovered Lojban and I think it's really neat except for this ONE thing, and if you accept my change, then Lojban will be the GREATEST, and if not, then you all are a bunch of old lame losers" attitude. If your idea is sound (and it may well be; I suspect most people on this list are just ignoring your long-winded rants), you should be able to explain its merits in a few succinct paragraphs, except for perhaps answering a few questions here and there, which is inevitable. Then it would stand or fall on its merits, not on how loud its cheerleaders are. And you missed one of Dr. Clifford's main points in your last wild snippage: "As i have said, I don't have an opposing point of view (that featural alphabets are a bad idea); my only interest is to either get you to give a GOOD argument for you proposal or drop it. I have little hope for either happening based on past performance." So what's the short-and-sweet version? What value would there be for the existing community, many of whom have spent years writing various bits of lojban in good old ASCII, to dump all the old corpus and tools, and start using your proposed alphabet? Would there be any advantage to new learners if we did so? -- Bob Slaughter, rslauGUESS@WHATmindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ North Georgia Modurail: http://www.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/ In which language of the world does the word 'taxi' mean "I cannot drive"? e'osai ko sarji la lojban fo lonu pilno -- http://www.lojban.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.