From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jul 07 18:02:44 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fz1DG-0004BZ-CN for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:26 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.206]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fz1DF-0004BR-7l for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:26 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 4so1955434nzn for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hNMbqz+TErJnJKHxYMQpT7Nx2GbglE2sEHA5GX3D29lDvxtXQWE9bvhEm/MxSkvAID7HX/Yn7UnCb5gyaoH8poqfdzNuNQijQWpF/xC/LuSfDbtFm//FDMdrGV5D9nUKuEq0GVxOsDyr4tYQkYEqQYum3nSzkd6Q6iyCP6YWyCU= Received: by 10.36.77.2 with SMTP id z2mr3150191nza; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [70.224.74.45]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 12sm146787nzn.2006.07.07.18.02.23; Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44AF0362.80102@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:59:14 -0400 From: Hugh O'Byrne User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Lojban Alphabet Starter B References: <20060707004907.5729.qmail@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060707004907.5729.qmail@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 11973 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: hobyrne@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I'm pleased to see much discussion in this thread already. Thank you, J.C., for your effort in reestablishing this dialog too. John E Clifford wrote: > What would be an ideal alphabet for Lojban? We have fallen into an alphabet and – because > “everybody” knows it -- it works very well for our present purposes: getting as many people > as possible learning the language. But suppose that Lojban were established and secure and wanted > an alphabet that was thoroughly for Lojban, not just a borrowed form that had served countless > other languages already. Thinking about this, I have come up with the following – very > tentative – thoughts. Comments sought. Comments gladly provided. The kind of long-term thinking you describe above is appealing to me. Uh... wow. Wild snippage, because the post is so thorough (meaty!), and I can't see much to add to it, right away. me too! I guess the comment I would first provide is: A thorough analysis of *phonetic* features (even ones irrelavent to the phonemes of Lojban, or *any* one particular language) would make a better starting place for this discussion, IMHO. Features of sounds that can concievably (reasonably) be considered different, should be considered. Within the context of *this* discussion, the work would show through as a more thorough analysis of the problem when it *does* get reduced to phonemes. I'm looking at something else at the same time, too; the work would also be relavent to closing loopholes relating to the ZOI selma'o (described in another post, "ZOI and culture neutrality"). -- Good night, and have a rational tomorrow! mi'e .xius. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.