From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jul 09 12:18:37 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzenK-000517-7C for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:18 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzenJ-000510-9y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:18 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 14so29264nzn for ; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=KA3bKRq87s7pMG9KP2rxzCL8M8UMGk1RgjFFFED797jgSQWyxkFb3YeVl9CjpcCfzN1Eenpn5Qt02BDlRcaJUxY4FwzKqkE4H5Lsc26EwhnDT+M1OmvdoZ9fTgPl0dY6hQI8nt1b2YGpMOpTVEizoPkJxtE05E0dEC78UdMFVMQ= Received: by 10.36.67.7 with SMTP id p7mr4671219nza; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [70.224.74.45]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e1sm2241337nzd.2006.07.09.12.18.15; Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44B155B4.9050503@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:15:00 -0400 From: Hugh O'Byrne User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: ZOI and culture neutrality References: <20060709173645.55250.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060709173645.55250.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 12027 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: hobyrne@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list John E Clifford wrote: > --- Hugh O'Byrne wrote: >>John E Clifford wrote: >>>... I don't see the need for it. >> >>In the argument (summarized) >> >>me: I think something could be improved! >>you: I don't see the need for it. >> >>your point is at best value-neutral (not even value-negative). I would >>ask you not to filibuster. > > Sorry, I took you as saying it ought to be done (what improvements usually entail). this was a > request -- in that light -- to show where the need lay, i.e., in what sense its inclusion would be > an improvement on something. No, it was not a request. It was an admission of lack of vision on your part, and it was filibustering. Breakdown: First sentence, admission of lack of vision. 6 sentences on personal preference and personal usage. A supposition. And another admission of lack of vision. This was filibuster. If you disagree, I'm happy to let the community decide (though I do not wish to impose such a task on it). Either the representative of the community: the list moderator, or the populus of the community: a poll, would be acceptable to me. Your choice! What do you think? Would you abide by the results of a poll on whether "me: I think something could be improved! you: I don't see the need for it." is filibustering or not? I would. Making it easy: A multiple-choice question. What are you going to do now? A) Maintain that you are not filibustering, but refuse to allow any feedback from the community in favour or against your position. B) Maintain that you are not filibustering, but leave the question to the community (or a legitimate representative of the community). C) Admit to filibustering. D) Ignore this post. E) ... My imagination lacks. But as I said, you have considerable skill, perhaps you can put something in for "E" here. (Fair warning: I am holding this as a coffin-nail. Not on your argument, in particular, but on one of your methods of argument (guess which one). I'm giving you this chance to disarm me of that nail, if you care to take it.) -- Good night, and have a rational tomorrow! mi'e .xius. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.