From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 16 10:18:25 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDP1p-0008UV-TP for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:06 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDP1m-0008UO-B2 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:05 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so768934nfc for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Z+S1/0S9dkT+LMfIo1kPa8Fhnsa0GzeKarTLcOenJYD1eT3MYIrMlUiwlovWqMpxt7KzBAFfZc6vw/Z4Ibj7W826+iJ1xF6CctzawVjvtoIEMT7eCl+VJWm7o4BM248ZNP8dd7MFABbzEG2US7uUJCaou8kiCWbsPzbXMhFWJXY= Received: by 10.49.90.4 with SMTP id s4mr971575nfl; Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.161.17 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:18:00 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: What Texts Would You Like To Read In Lojban? In-Reply-To: <486760598.20060816180953@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <486760598.20060816180953@mail.ru> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 12473 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list > Le Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:09:53 +0200, Yanis Batura a écrit: > > > coi jbonei > > > > Suppose you have a weighty amount of time and desire to learn Lojban by > > reading texts in it. What texts would you like to use for this purpose? > > Would they be sci-fi, detectives, or scientific articles? What authors > > would you like to read in Lojban? > > > > mi'e .ianis. > On 8/16/06, David KOCH wrote: > Very shortly, I'd like to read this masterpiece in Lojban : > > http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/829 > http://lee.jaffebros.com/gulliver/ > > -- > KOCH David aka Kochise > No, you probably wouldn't invest the time and effort to read such a lengthy work in Lojban. Even if you did, the "very shortly" timeframe is too small to learn enough expertise to understand a text like Gulliver's Travels if it were in Lojban. Here are some arguments from Lojbab about why it's better to translate short stories and articles instead of novel-length works: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "a) the number of people who are competent to translate a given text to any arbitrary degree of skill is significantly smaller than the number who are sufficiently competent to try to read the resulting level of text (assuming that the results are readable at all) b) the number of people who are both competent and willing to translate texts of book length in a timeframe shorter than many months or even years are vanishingly small c) probably by the time you finished a mediocre translation of a novel, your Lojban skills would be sufficiently improved that you want to throw it out and start over, realizing just how bad you were when you started. I think Nick Nicholas suffered from this effect, even with much shorter translations. d) the time that any potential translator spends on said long book takes time away from all other Lojbanic activities, including reading what others are writing, which reduces the market for the translations that are done and chokes the community by denying others the time spent on short term activities that are more interactive. And arguably, anyone competent enough to translate a novel into Lojban should be being co-opted into the byfy work (that is my own excuse - I cannot justify spending my too-limited Lojban time on even a short translation while the byfy work is stagnating and I haven't done anything on it in a long time) e) the byfy work, even if it results in only minor changes, will to some extent render all prior translations at best "quaint". Not that many people read Athelstan's Saki, and Nick's early translations, these days, even though they were the best thing that existed for a long time. They are probably not the best examples of Lojban these days, though they were at the time. This rapid aging detracts from the motivation people have in spending the necessary long time on a long translation. Put another way, while you were reading "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" in French, you probably weren't at the same time translating "Around the World in 80 Days" or any other similar length work into French (especially French that someone else would read), and probably you haven't tried to translate anything even a fraction as long into French since you finished. And you had no reason to believe that the French language would evolve enough to make your translation in need of revision within a short time." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think it was during a similar discussion last year that he sent this. I agree. Short stories and articles are a better way to spend our time right now. -epkat To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.