From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 25 06:38:02 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GRqeK-0005lx-OJ for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:37:35 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.230]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GRqeB-0005lk-Tx for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:37:29 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 55so666507wri for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:37:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=aDUN49DIvyGx4FVarN0/i4SoTeTkK7RZtrbWZ7OsKuS7pfqmbk7BQFLQochBf26QW8iP91HK0j9i8kPZtbeX3ERe7i19i6nx2KxLFQAYupSiaQzMzLa8A4WEmA7Slh8ouamMNPsOt82ZW2EJ6aqjAX0yOueYrW9XFsUZnsJPl5E= Received: by 10.90.103.2 with SMTP id a2mr1267897agc; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.83.9 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:37:22 -0400 From: "Andrii Zvorygin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: my opinion on why lojban isn't specifically well suited for human-computer interaction.1 In-Reply-To: <45177c6a.2116e5c9.0195.ffffb80c@mx.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31318_29107019.1159191442321" References: <87slig32ev.fsf@gmail.com> <45177c6a.2116e5c9.0195.ffffb80c@mx.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-archive-position: 12634 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: andrii.z@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_31318_29107019.1159191442321 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well I guess a large part of how it differs, is that it was envisioned to have a fully distributed p2p network for the functions, and the p2p network might as well act like freenet, and services like putting up your own website, though perhaps a little more geared towards speed and reliability, as the computer should be doing most of the worrying. The skami would do backups, and a very large amount of other things not even really conceivable with programs today. features this system has that .net does not: * evolving code base (.net has just like with any other, normal programming language, pre-coded libraries, that sure maybe updated, but are mainly maintained by a single company, and sure they may have lots of commities it's nothing in comparison to everyone being able to contribute whatever they want, and not have to go through commities, just having the community the decide what functions they do or don't want to use.) * true independance of programming languages (.NET framework can support communication between different kinds of .NET programming languages. C#, Visual Basics .NET, CLI/C++ .This system only requires I/O to function, and some basic string parsing and you can write a function in that language, so just about anything, java to haskell to bash to python, perl w/e) * standards (is something this implementation doesn't really have to worry about, most things can be a matter of convention, if you state something in lojban, and you're function does the same thing someone elses function does, your specific bridi would show similar input/output as the other persons, and these can then be aliased or merged into just one by the user.) * survivability (this skami will not die easily, it will try to back itself up (with your permission) so you don't lose your settings wherever it can. it could recognize you based on you functional description, (things like typing speed, what you know about how to use the computer, in what order you do things), passwords will largely be eliminated, if anything goes wrong the computer could probably ask you some questions about some email conversations or chats that you had within the past few weeks to verify your identity. In fact it will tell you when you need more storage, ram, cpu power, probably search the web for cheap prices and good quality, and not be loyal to any particular vendors, only to it's user) * and lots more ( I could go on, but you probably agree that if you thought it was possible to achieve it's a better system, just because of the possibilities, when you make a system optimized to be controlled by the AI of the computer. but if you are still digging your heels in, it probably wont matter if I go on) so if you have any objections, or questions about feasability, please ask, but I can't really say all that much about the long term capabilities until i have more code, but eventually it could replace the current internet, at least in some ways. On 9/25/06, M@ wrote: > > First and foremost I'm not qualified whatsoever to talk about this, as I > am > searching for these types of answers myself. That said, here's my take on > this specific case. > > Spanish stands alone because it has evolved into an independent entity in > exactly the same way that species of animal can split off from one another > if they are separated for a long enough period of time. > > Additionally, codes can be abstracted, languages cannot (or at least none > that are coming to mind can). I could speak lojban in Morse Code, or > Spanish in Morse Code (if I could speak Spanish that is). I can't imagine > pig latin would work very well applied to Spanish, but conceptually there > is > no barrier with the idea. > > Do you mean to suggest that Latin grammar is the same as Spanish grammar > (I > don't know one way or the other)? > > --M@ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: > lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org] > > On Behalf Of Timothy Hobbs > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:07 AM > > To: lojban-list@lojban.org > > Subject: [lojban] Re: my opinion on why lojban isn't specifically well > > suited for human-computer interaction.1 > > > > if all Spanish words were regularly modified Latin words, instead of > just > > most. would Spanish not be a language but a code. does the fact that > > Spanish imports a class libraries of words from 3rd party languages > (that > > is, other than Latin...) make it a language and not an code for speaking > > Latin? would that make Morse code come under the same category as > > Spanish, since it has its own unique set of acronyms and words related > to > > communicating accurately? > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or > if > > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > ------=_Part_31318_29107019.1159191442321 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well I guess a large part of how it differs, is that it was envisioned to have a fully distributed p2p network for the functions, and the p2p network might as well act like freenet, and services like putting up your own website, though perhaps a little more geared towards speed and reliability, as the computer should be doing most of the worrying.

The skami would do backups, and a very large amount of other things not even really conceivable with programs today.

features this system has that .net does not:
* evolving code base (.net has just like with any other, normal programming language, pre-coded libraries, that sure maybe updated, but are mainly maintained by a single company, and sure they may have lots of commities it's nothing in comparison to everyone being able to contribute whatever they want, and not have to go through commities, just having the community the decide what functions they do or don't want to use.)
* true independance of programming languages (.NET framework can support communication between different kinds of .NET programming languages. C#, Visual Basics .NET, CLI/C++ .This system only requires I/O to function, and some basic string parsing and you can write a function in that language, so just about anything, java to haskell to bash to python, perl w/e)
* standards (is something this implementation doesn't really have to worry about, most things can be a matter of convention, if you state something in lojban, and you're function does the same thing someone elses function does, your specific bridi would show similar input/output as the other persons, and these  can then be aliased or merged into just one by the user.)
* survivability (this skami will not die easily, it will try to back itself up (with your permission) so you don't lose your settings wherever it can. it could recognize you based on you functional description, (things like typing speed, what you know about how to use the computer, in what order you do things), passwords will largely be eliminated, if anything goes wrong the computer could probably ask you some questions about some email conversations or chats that you had within the past few weeks to verify your identity. In fact it will tell you when you need more storage, ram, cpu power, probably search the web for cheap prices and good quality, and not be loyal to any particular vendors, only to it's user)
* and lots more ( I could go on, but you probably agree that if you thought it was possible to achieve it's a better system, just because of the possibilities, when you make a system optimized to be controlled by the AI of the computer. but if you are still digging your heels in, it probably wont matter if I go on)

so if you have any objections, or questions about feasability, please ask, but I can't really say all that much about the long term capabilities until i have more code, but eventually it could replace the current internet, at least in some ways.

On 9/25/06, M@ <matthew.dunlap@gmail.com> wrote:
First and foremost I'm not qualified whatsoever to talk about this, as I am
searching for these types of answers myself.  That said, here's my take on
this specific case.

Spanish stands alone because it has evolved into an independent entity in
exactly the same way that species of animal can split off from one another
if they are separated for a long enough period of time.

Additionally, codes can be abstracted, languages cannot (or at least none
that are coming to mind can).  I could speak lojban in Morse Code, or
Spanish in Morse Code (if I could speak Spanish that is).  I can't imagine
pig latin would work very well applied to Spanish, but conceptually there is
no barrier with the idea.

Do you mean to suggest that Latin grammar is the same as Spanish grammar (I
don't know one way or the other)?

--M@

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org]
> On Behalf Of Timothy Hobbs
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:07 AM
> To: lojban-list@lojban.org
> Subject: [lojban] Re: my opinion on why lojban isn't specifically well
> suited for human-computer interaction.1
>
> if all Spanish words were regularly modified Latin words, instead of just
> most.  would Spanish not be a language but a code.  does the fact that
> Spanish imports a class libraries of words from 3rd party languages (that
> is, other than Latin...) make it a language and not an code for speaking
> Latin?  would that make Morse code come under the same category as
> Spanish, since it has its own unique set of acronyms and words related to
> communicating accurately?
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.



To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


------=_Part_31318_29107019.1159191442321-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.