From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 13 13:25:18 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjjIZ-0007yW-6D for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:24:59 -0800 Received: from centrmmtao04.cox.net ([70.168.83.80]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjjIT-0007yO-Qt for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:24:59 -0800 Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by centrmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061113212456.BWJL1440.centrmmtao04.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:56 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id mMPx1V00N3y5FKc0000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:23:59 -0500 Message-ID: <4558E2A1.9010907@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:49 -0500 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule References: <325816428.20061113190842@mail.ru> <20061113171203.GD24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <4558B5C3.9020006@kli.org> <87d57rxf3v.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87d57rxf3v.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 13103 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Timothy Hobbs wrote: > Just a thought, but would it be possible to have mandatory > terminators at the end of cmene? This terminator would be aloud at > any point in the cmene, the disallowed sequence would then be much > longer, it would be the terminator plus la, lo, le, ba, cu... any of > the sumti or selbri starting sounds. just a thought. The language already has that. People who are doing nonce names from other languages probably should be doing la'o quotes, which like zoi have a unique terminator before and after. Learning to Lojbanize your own name is one way to learn the rules and sound system of the language, and it is something many beginners like to do. But there are no editors or checkers that are vetting what self-teachers do. For all that Mark thinks that the problem will be lasting, it should be trivial for the tools - lexer/parser/glosser etc, to include such things as a check for "la" and related strings in what otherwise parses as a cmene token, and flag it with a clear error message. In the absence of skilled editors, the classic standard of evaluating Lojban text for publication has been to run it through the parser. But the official parser stopped being worked on (and indeed CLL itself wasn't run through the parser before publication, because John hadn't kept the parser up while working on the book), and the numerous unofficial parser projects have been reinventing the wheel in a variety of different ways, to different ends, and haven't (to my knowledge) been incorporating advances in the diagnostics. But if people were regularly running their text through checkers that caught such errors, I indeed think that people would stop making the errors. Human beings don't parse like machines, and thus accept things that a machine might not find legal. That just means that we need machines to help teach us to follow some of the rules. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.