From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 15 03:42:42 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJ9H-00073D-Ie for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:51 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJ8h-00072E-GJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:35 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id c2so96800ugf for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:07 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=PjTsuePA6ce+7nbpJBWl4nMuuxreP24eiCDL/pVsSFlU1KBUGllNyNaHAv9AnrYmGWGIVTRRSSCbPIrwnmRHqNK/Vzbyo4VTHL2tz68JrXru2ipwAgbpKoqUuH3W8HZ3BE1K4ctNiPEKtlOEDOxpO/x3nICNBKF+qIEGZ6Ur2cQ= Received: by 10.67.92.1 with SMTP id u1mr2742401ugl.1163590866941; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.2? ( [81.7.38.141]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id k1sm747545ugf.2006.11.15.03.41.06; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <455AFCD0.8080402@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:41:04 +0000 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule References: <20061114173413.83990.qmail@web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <455A35B4.5020804@lojban.org> <455A4F10.2080600@gmail.com> <737b61f30611141955l74a5edc2h3121344c355f3d06@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <737b61f30611141955l74a5edc2h3121344c355f3d06@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 13179 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: and.rosta@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Chris Capel, On 15/11/2006 03:55: > On 11/14/06, And Rosta wrote: >> The solution is >> rather to replace the words {la}, {lai} and {doi} by {la.}, {lai.} and >> {doi.}, i.e. [la?], [lai?], [doi?]. > > Your "realized as a" symbol, which I assume is some IPA, shows up as a > "?" for me. Is it a glottal stop? Yes. Ascii IPA, not a mangled character encoding. > I have a bit of difficulty pronouncing a glottal stop in the middle of > a speech stream, and getting it to sound different from without, or > from being apparent enough. For instance, the two > > la.clsn > laclsn > > sound pretty much the same the way I say them. In my English English accent, _lash_ is [laS] and _latch_ is [la?S], so one can at least say that the contrast is not exotic. In Lojban, where /./ appears in difficult clusters you could insert the buffer vowel (I use [Y]), so e.g. /la.clsn/ could be [la?YSlsn]. That's what I tend to do with the /./ at the end of cmevla, e.g. {la .alis. cu} [la?alis?YSu]. --And. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.