From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 04 07:26:43 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2UTb-0001Pq-JF for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:26:13 -0800 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.234]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2UT4-0001OE-0p for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:25:50 -0800 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so722203wra for ; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:24:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=YYqD7JtgN9n2MvzMmZDIjzFqO4ZWK/c7oZ/SqIJ2hCVLiZZ3SOqlchmR6klCvXEcspv38HSMfMdOsvLj3LoTYXDC4CxCsZuYoh/rmu5/PjdzPK6FS9OoFYOXvSvHdR73UuNj/4eiIKjrlkGgHM8jVIn+pcxAYvf3bPvKDM6W0Hc= Received: by 10.90.73.3 with SMTP id v3mr210046aga.1167924291479; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.31.16 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:24:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10701040724r44dfae9u9480f7dba69c9cb4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:24:51 +0300 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: "Lojban List" Subject: [lojban] Regular vs dictionary lujvo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: f319c14982099a84 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Score-Int: -18 X-Spam-Bar: - X-archive-position: 13480 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi rodo We all know that: 1) Tanru have many possible meanings and you must guess the right one from context. 2) Lujvo have one meaning and you must to look up it from dictionary. But in reality we have a class of a "regular" lujvo which meaning anyone can guess. I will not bother to dig into the dictionary for a lujvo starting with sel- or tol- or ending with -mau or -gau. And if a dictionary will give a different meaning than I have guessed, I will conclude that this dictionary is Bad, Wrong and Evil. But there is a trap. Consider a lujvo "pofygau". Almost anyone will understand it as "to break (agentive)", and this meaning is listed in gimste. But someone in lojban_ru community noted that other possible meaning is "to be a broken agent", "to be unable to cause something". I believe that most of the sane lojbanists will prefer the first meaning over the second. Why? Because the "something+gau" pattern is much more recognizable than "pof+something". "-gau" is more affixish than "pof-". So, I conclude, it will be a Good Thing to have a list of common lujvo patterns that need not be listed in dictionary, and to have a rule to resolve conflicts when a given lujvo match two or more patterns. For the second goal I suggest the following two rules: 1) Rafsi derived from cmavo is more affixish (has a higher priority) than rafsi derived from gismu. 2) Unless the first rule gives an answer, rafsi at the end of lujvo is more affixish (has a higher priority) than rafsi at te beginning of lujvo. Any comments? ... Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away ... -- Cyril Slobin To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.