From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jan 05 09:46:16 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2t8L-00017Y-81 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:45:47 -0800 Received: from silene.metacarta.com ([65.77.47.18]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2t81-000177-Ij for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:45:32 -0800 Received: from localhost (silene.metacarta.com [65.77.47.18]) by silene.metacarta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1606714C80FE for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from silene.metacarta.com ([65.77.47.18]) by localhost (silene.metacarta.com [65.77.47.18]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30306-10 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:45:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [65.77.47.178] (cheyenne.metacarta.com [65.77.47.178]) by silene.metacarta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97D514C810B for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:44:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <459E8E80.1060107@ropine.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:44:32 -0500 From: Seth Gordon User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20060926) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc... References: <3ccac5f10701050608x71a6381p89a54e54e2239e65@mail.gmail.com> <95093.56426.qm@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560701050934yc0c5158w7d06fb2f916dc9a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560701050934yc0c5158w7d06fb2f916dc9a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at metacarta.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13493 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: sethg@ropine.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 1/5/07, John E Clifford wrote: > >> As for the English, the words "promise" and "duty" are polysemous, >> covering the making of the promise, what is promised and some >> abstraction (don't we have a generic abstraction operator? Yes, {su'u}) >> which combines what is promised with the whole network of conditions >> which making a promise calls into being. This last is probably best >> summed up in "the sate of being obligated to do whatever by virtue of a >> promise". > > > Could you give examples where the English "promise" means anything > other than what is promised, {lo se nupre}? Can it really be used for the > act of making a promise or for the state one is in after making a promise? "Fred promised to give me a bicycle. Fred broke his promise." Fred did not break the bicycle; rather, he acted in a way that was inconsistent with the state of having made a promise. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.