From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jan 06 03:30:49 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H39jp-0003Fv-CT for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:29:27 -0800 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H39ig-0003Dq-5Y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:29:05 -0800 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so10309187wxd for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:28:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=tbglaLKldZAEl7FCjjXG93dZoo6F4dh27W72AcigouWRGmVGO3XeaZ7D0H1TsaznlYMBkLYZw3G9R9TOXLGoC+lrlfunsej0kQPWRPdNydCZRqALyvRw9NBGjQ3pXXnLZC5dIJne/domVFzj2m5gvV8Z2wRkUeUzbZS5IiTIieE= Received: by 10.90.56.14 with SMTP id e14mr1214202aga.1168082888731; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.31.16 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 03:28:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10701060328x4dfe521el94e252b88487e24e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:28:08 +0300 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc... In-Reply-To: <925d17560701051227k6ea1881erbecc9fd3890df70b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3ccac5f10701050608x71a6381p89a54e54e2239e65@mail.gmail.com> <95093.56426.qm@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560701050934yc0c5158w7d06fb2f916dc9a@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10701051012g4a37b11fnc22ce33e68d30747@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560701051107x61f57454x9dba1da1af8dfa2f@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10701051122x6bd822a1wb5f1f4f04af79912@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560701051203n32513783neab6a15a5b5856df@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10701051216h13364c34ue4b10daf63bfb52d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560701051227k6ea1881erbecc9fd3890df70b@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 04b34af3974b958f X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13516 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi xorxes > > > "Keeping your promise would be silly" I suggest: > > > {lo nu zukte lo se nupre be do cu se bebna} I have spent a sleepless night thinking about the subject, and I have some new enlightenment now. Let us put "promise" aside, consider "request". Imagine the following scenario: I, Cyril, send to you, Jorge, a letter with request to explain your ideas about {nupre}. But you do not receive my letter - it was disappeared into the Great Black Hole in the Middle of the Internet. But you, being not aware about my request, by your own initiative, write a message explaining your ideas about {nupre}. Do you comply with my request? The answer "no" is at least defensible. To comply with request, you must not only do the action requested, but also do it because of request. Similarly, to fulfil the promise is not just do the promised thing, but do it because of promise. So my current solution is: le nu do mu'igi nupre gi zukte vau ko'a cu se bebna But at this point I remember about the price of infinite precision... So for practical needs I just say {tu'a lo se nupre be do cu bebna}. ... Human attention ... -- Cyril Slobin To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.