From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Nov 10 17:20:53 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1VM-0001Np-Ki for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:52 -0800 Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ir1VJ-0001Ni-QX for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:20:52 -0800 Received: from chausie (unknown [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4ED1CE85C for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 20:20:46 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Deutschland Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:20:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <200711092247.41574.phma@phma.optus.nu> <02a501c823ef$cf44af00$0202a8c0@TOP> <12d58c160711101536r7d5794fdq544c3c5c589c85cd@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <12d58c160711101536r7d5794fdq544c3c5c589c85cd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200711102020.42849.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13915 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Saturday 10 November 2007 18:36, komfo,amonan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pierre Abbat" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:47 PM > > Subject: [lojban] Deutschland > > > > > The cmene can't be {doitclant} because of the doi/la/lai/la'i rule. The > > > Book, > > > IIRR, says it's {daitclant}. But the gismu is {dotco}, so why isn't the > > > cmene > > > {dotclant}? > > Consider that both forms derive from the original 'deutsch/Deutschland', & > each follows its own morphological rules. Hence 'dotco' is the closest > possible word to 'deutsch' in (cultural-) gismu-space, while 'daitclant' is > the closest possible word to 'Deutschland' in cmevla-space. I don't think {daitclant} is closer to "Deutschland" than {dotclant} is, and prefer {dotclant} for consistency. > On Nov 10, 2007 6:17 PM, Nathaniel Krause wrote: > > I'm not sure why one would use a cmevla at all, since there happens to be > > a > > lujvo, dotygu'e, available with the same meaning. You may want to avoid having the listener think of the x2 and x3 of the lujvo, or you may want to use a cmevla for consistency (la .estraix .e la dotclant), or maybe someone might think that {dotygu'e} could refer to other countries where German is spoken. > Some folks, myself included, are uncomfortable with the cultural gismu -- > they seem to elevate a couple dozen cultures above all the others. (And > yes I know I use them, but within a year or so I'll probably dispense with > their use entirely.) There are also cultural lujvo and cultural fu'ivla: labru'o, dizdo'o, berdo'o, brodo'o, mraigo, katlana, skalduna, bre'one, tce'exo, oksitano, oiltano, tsakoni, to name several just in Europe. Pierre To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.