From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Dec 15 06:14:31 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J3Xmg-0002xQ-U9 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:31 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J3Xmc-0002xC-HM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:30 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so70384fga.0 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=uBOgVfDBHcnivq9hCdxCRqdr4XVoDYYSH5XwibJi+iM=; b=kei96YAGSJ7EzTfAe0p9z4ZbHZ3S5GI9R8bwIVLLWX8HwT6IV99fTSxwzxc/PLEq6XjInVSoPQx9L9SFQk8Lxt4+Bs6tdwnj5f17lM0dtFNDjEFgbTif12nAvo3gS5jbgIGcyUwzZGoOk6Mg1yAqxN0fBhLsabIdGx8O8LaqH04= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M/01YOoPblFA6caov9/+0lg7WypmGLK2u9+Xkb8ME1npTmAO5wZBKAaDtc/nlaLxU+lSEqfKcylSJZ5azImgELwVs6ctnhZwT0h/66Cca9DF0U6Wfl8MMD3AylRpK3icAph7uyZGi5Av8Jp+VNBzlalA3FPa9nv1+zOSuTENH9M= Received: by 10.86.100.7 with SMTP id x7mr4208719fgb.78.1197728064923; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:14:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560712150614x1444b543qdfbbb6b5bfc76219@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:14:24 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "This number" In-Reply-To: <97f5058c0712141559s7e303235s9f29320bd1922172@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <97f5058c0712042002q563a1ebercc15fe68a57f2210@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712051059v3b83f3e6ieee1e1aed2a7f6db@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0712141553gac4b952qcbd2c7610a83308e@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0712141559s7e303235s9f29320bd1922172@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14005 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Dec 14, 2007 8:59 PM, Penguino wrote: > Thus the first example goes to "mi nitcu paza'u pinsi", and the second "la > .aslan. djica su'oza'u narge". But I don't think that's really what "more" means in the original. Consider this other example: "I will buy one more pencil." That does not mean that I will buy a number of pencils that is equal to "some established number plus one". I will buy a single pencil. The other pencils I already have, I either already bought them, or I got them by some other means. Using {za'u} you could say: mi ba te vecnu lo za'u moi pinsi I will buy an other-than-first pencil. i.e. "other than first" in some unspecified order, for example the order in which I got them. In your examples with "want" and "need" it is pehaps less clear, because if you need one more presumably you also need the ones you already have and if Aslan wants some more presumably he also wants/wanted the ones he already has/had. But "I want one more pencil" and "Aslan wants some more nuts" doesn't strictly assert anything about the previous pencils/nuts, it only presupposes that you have them/Aslan had them. >The interaction between multiple inexact > numbers might have to be worked out, but in this case it is unambiguous. "At > least two more" would be su'oreza'u, which would be the same whether > interpreted as (su'ore)za'u or su'o(reza'u) If {za'u} were to be used that way, then it would be a kind of indicator. {reza'u broda} would mean two broda, which are in some sense added to some other broda already present in the context but which are not arguments of the current bridi. Perhaps {ji'a} is more appropriate for that: mi nitcu pa ji'a pinsi la .aslan. cu djica su'o ji'a narge mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.