From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Dec 15 10:45:48 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J3c1D-00043y-9Q for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:48 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J3c18-00043k-To for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:46 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so87549fga.0 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Oc600o/4i556LX0Ooz8/8YORtZSMSwCH1tLakMTPW2U=; b=YnQMBWhj02h0b0GC6FfS7dIOxfXxTlZZv0kUK7+E+mxBoaVbebGPGV1aKAjmIKh1qpDF84WJ6ShRB7yCyGBuhBe4loItclJUrPjjeMkgh7uBwhINMRTLagWVDoZHne5wCz+ZL86K2p4oynhUCGPbTY+piQ9bwjL16ZzsHk9MmDE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QbB5v2/9kpbaDi8abx2VVZrR6W+oPNi0+1g9CSbSD+zjMYYmeNQMWPXzVcMOvjDsVXSRSHeD9MlpbmYMSYlY8mKbMXNAeiHXD8O0WQvde0UEDRWYPmRmL2sTcVpMlfQTtpVMJ/jITDgM4RXy53Wsbl0n7fKby+eX4SZP9TgQIuU= Received: by 10.86.26.11 with SMTP id 11mr4427754fgz.72.1197744341197; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560712151045g9e72766g22b3d0fc72fd91e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:45:41 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "This number" In-Reply-To: <925d17560712150637x289628ecq8f8c819af505bc10@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <97f5058c0712042002q563a1ebercc15fe68a57f2210@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712051059v3b83f3e6ieee1e1aed2a7f6db@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0712141553gac4b952qcbd2c7610a83308e@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0712141559s7e303235s9f29320bd1922172@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712150614x1444b543qdfbbb6b5bfc76219@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0712150621m1ca35d1cmb21b6d2b64c60f3@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712150637x289628ecq8f8c819af505bc10@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14010 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list A claim in English about "X more whatevers" can be ambiguous between: (1) a claim about X whatevers, given that there are already some number of whatevers in the context. (2) a claim about a number of whatevers that is X more than some number of whatevers present in the context. For example: "Mary has three pencils. I have two more." How many pencils do we have in all? If we interpret according to (1), we have five pencils altogether. If we interpret acording to (2), we have eight. My impression is that the most common use is (1), but (2) is also possible. To say (1) in Lojban, I think the right way to go is with a modifier of "pencil", to get "additional pencil", which could be for example {bancydrata}: la .meris. cu ponse ci pinsi .i mi ponse re bancydrata or {za'u moi}: la .meris. cu ponse ci pinsi .i mi ponse re lo za'u moi To get meaning (2), we first need to figure out a simpler case: "Mary has three pencils. I have the same number." Or "I have just as many." That was the original question, wasn't it? How do we say "this/that number". I think we can do that with {no'o mi'u}: la .meris. cu ponse ci pinsi .i mi ponse no'o mi'u da "Mary has three pencils. I have said number." And then: la .meris. cu ponse ci pinsi .i mi ponse vei no'o mi'u su'i re da "Mary has three pencils. I have said number plus two." mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.