From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Dec 20 21:09:20 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J5a8F-0001wS-IQ for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:09:19 -0800 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.178]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J5a7z-0001vp-7x for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:09:06 -0800 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so415273pyi.11 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:08:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=XFVJUNvg7948rktoPmOP0Kn5aZCWx2K+I6vut+gcKzQ=; b=J4YcO4x3zHEEcLiJ82WuHUEti86VJjV8rJQIQ+CZ4jdRRnLq4jCQyY1CssD7bdW4Aj/8kq+IBiP1FtF6O1Jz7pZIDu7mSwJL/HCQcYFmle+zk4FcH/l5Z94u0riev+YHySN+MUVffB9oGk0pfk7GF4Arz6FIwD7ELXUNmGJKmvk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Ts3799OJ/xvVXuPcUDiIS9O32l8gM+/MGwaOKn1FfSskCtkC0r/XIE609n2z++oBVwVoRmxIkq/1COj3Md4tAK0DQE8dhm+rM59opIwbgbuM5LIX0qHSZ+/i20AN3K1Y6u5y/gQyrZs6O6Y7DLanz47jgyoPIIUAf4gvA4V20RU= Received: by 10.142.11.2 with SMTP id 2mr451436wfk.233.1198213728391; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.193.17 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:08:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <737b61f30712202108s720cf564ybccabac1a1701017@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:08:48 -0600 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] lu'o lo/le vs. loi/lei in LFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14047 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Reading this lesson: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less4articles.html The author introduces {lu'o} as the main way to use mass sumti, which I think isn't right. He says "You cannot say 'loi ci nanmu cu bevri le pipno', because that means that there are only three men that exist in the universe." Which, with the new {lo} semantics, isn't true. {lo ci nanmu} simply means "three men". Since that's the case, you can now use inner quantifiers on {loi} phrases with no problems, and there's no reason to ever use {lu'o lo}. Is all that right? Also, even given the old LE semantics, I don't think his reasoning would imply you ever need to use {lu'o le}, since inner quantifiers have the desired semantics. So I'm thinking that whole section (just the page I linked to) could use re-writing for the new LE semantics. Which I think I'll do, if no one objects. As it stands, it's very confusing. I remember being confused by it two or so years back when I was reading it for the first time, and even just now I found it hard to wade through, and I think that's just unnecessary. There's no reason for cmalu lojbo prenu to get stuck on that particular section. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.