From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Dec 26 07:57:51 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J7Ydj-0005eG-9P for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:51 -0800 Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J7Yde-0005dm-S4 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:51 -0800 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i2so1584412mue.2 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=98OTL+M92guTQRAQ6H/PP5xZrmBSgNUnti6SAIOZbXQ=; b=NqJkgxQamomyiSSzr7X660+Nzxyl4+Sgz/gFSH9vSjxomOo7XrXvxI0V8HjCN/hWxygXHP2TcSVyj9O6YoKxsylBowOuDUYjLX+1jDIG4Z7wfVzIyA00ZlY/vGFeosMZRs2sWLaVMqSXGyn5WHWoyhrhvlrJpRzs/Mw6xkDuDHE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=p0MdqlzfV00gLfBQO/HAFrwsw/Q8/iqaDREeWOYsjexIGlt3EpAHO+nntrNZ0j2vfwNrbVdC7KDdOIK7i2LWp1w7HtEZporlid4Xe+zfVt8BsB++fesO+r401Z+Hls0moAEcNHFf0ygF/O5bt6Ma/fTh7bDJJyr07cuIRvLwP7s= Received: by 10.78.136.9 with SMTP id j9mr8199424hud.46.1198684665035; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.160.20 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:57:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:57:45 -0500 From: "Nate Vruwink" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: SVO order In-Reply-To: <737b61f30712181242i5cfd6707n745406a7ed4b2a57@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9740_24862611.1198684665027" References: <737b61f30712181039r134bca55v908d10e8be1323be@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560712181117k3d8ee116yab87e6e27d6d6361@mail.gmail.com> <3ccac5f10712181136w76664b5drdd962b2c9f12df97@mail.gmail.com> <47682208.20803@perpetuum-immobile.de> <476825A7.1080602@kli.org> <4768265E.20304@perpetuum-immobile.de> <737b61f30712181242i5cfd6707n745406a7ed4b2a57@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14061 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nate.vruwink@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_9740_24862611.1198684665027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >But then the state of grammar >education in America really sucks. Amen! Most often, the teachers themselves don't even know what it is they are trying to teach. I have read grammar books that contradicted themselves, but most often, the best ones remember that English grammar is "not set in stone", so they cover their mistakes by saying that it can be interpreted either way. I've been taught both that "is" is a linking (or helping, or auxilliary, and so on...) verb, but I've also been taught that "is" is the main verb, even in the case of "Is going" or "is becoming", when "going" or "becoming" are participles, interpreted as either adjectives or nouns or... Blech. Nate On Dec 18, 2007 3:42 PM, Chris Capel wrote: > On Dec 18, 2007 1:58 PM, Timo Paulssen > wrote: > > Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > > > For example, in the sentence "Fred is a doctor," > > > the subject is "Fred" and the predicate is "is a doctor" ("a doctor" > > > being a predicate nominative, and part of the predicate) whereas the > > > verb is "is." > > > > isn't is only an auxilliary verb anyway? or am i confusing stuff with > > german? ;) > > In my experience, "auxiliary verb" refers to "have", "had", "was", > etc. in compound tense formations, but never to "is", which is called > a "linking verb" or some such nonsense. But then the state of grammar > education in America really sucks. > > Chris Capel > -- > "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it > like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" > -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > ------=_Part_9740_24862611.1198684665027 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >But then the state of grammar
>education in America really sucks.

Amen!
Most often, the teachers themselves don't even know what it is they are trying to teach.
I have read grammar books that contradicted themselves, but most often, the best ones remember that English grammar is "not set in stone", so they cover their mistakes by saying that it can be interpreted either way.

I've been taught both that "is" is a linking (or helping, or auxilliary, and so on...) verb, but I've also been taught that "is" is the main verb, even in the case of "Is going" or "is becoming", when "going" or "becoming" are participles, interpreted as either adjectives or nouns or...

Blech.

Nate

On Dec 18, 2007 3:42 PM, Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 18, 2007 1:58 PM, Timo Paulssen <timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote:
> Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
> > For example, in the sentence "Fred is a doctor,"
> > the subject is "Fred" and the predicate is "is a doctor" ("a doctor"
> > being a predicate nominative, and part of the predicate) whereas the
> > verb is "is."
>
> isn't is only an auxilliary verb anyway? or am i confusing stuff with
> german? ;)

In my experience, "auxiliary verb" refers to "have", "had", "was",
etc. in compound tense formations, but never to "is", which is called
a "linking verb" or some such nonsense. But then the state of grammar
education in America really sucks.

Chris Capel
--
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


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