From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jan 09 17:20:48 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JCm6C-00027D-6G for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:20:48 -0800 Received: from squid17.laughingsquid.net ([72.32.93.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JCm67-00026q-Rs for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:20:47 -0800 Received: (qmail 18790 invoked by uid 48); 9 Jan 2008 17:20:32 -0800 Received: from c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net (c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.233.37]) by webmail.ixkey.info (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:20:32 -0800 Message-ID: <20080109172032.omyoeauu3o4w00sc@webmail.ixkey.info> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:20:32 -0800 From: mungojelly@ixkey.info To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: selsanga co ninfinti References: <20080109084306.irrlxzqk9w00kk4c@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560801090903q7cdafd26w2e0d9e6e6c54070b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560801090903q7cdafd26w2e0d9e6e6c54070b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14094 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@ixkey.info Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Quoting Jorge Llambías : > Perhaps a better translation is "it's possible that it happpens". That's a better translation, I agree! It's always weird translating parts of Lojban that refer to vague or distant ideas or sentences. It seems like the only tools for doing that at all in English are "it" and "that", and you have to keep them far away from any concrete objects to put them into that service! .i xu lo cribe cu cadzu lo foldi Does a bear walk the field? .i cumki fa lo nu go'i It's possible that happens. .i cumki fa lo nu co'e It's possible that it happens. .i cumki fa lo nu go'i It's possible that it's possible that it happens. > {co'e} is an unspecified relationship because it must be figured > out from the context, not because it is nonspecific. My feeling is that the "co'e" is most likely to associate with the first bridi of the song, which is after all the only concrete idea anywhere nearby. It also seems to me like another sensible interpretation would be "that could have been what happened, or something else could have happened", but given the meaning of "cumki" that's roughly equivalent in meaning, anyway. In the context of the song, maybe it's a question as to which animal it was exactly in the field, in which case the "co'e" bridi could mean "or it could have been one of the other animals mentioned." I suppose the "co'e" could also be on a higher level, and be talking about the "cumki" relationship of the preceding bridi. On a subtextual level, the vagueness of the "co'e" cooperates somehow with the uncertainties of the "cumki"s. Maybe one thing, maybe another thing, maybe anything, maybe maybe. > "It's possible that something happens" would be closer > to {cumki fa lo nu bu'a}. [.ua.ueru'e] I didn't know about zo "bu'a". It seems like "bu'a" is to "broda" as "da" is to "ko'a"? mu'o mi'e la bret. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.