From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 31 14:25:48 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JKhqs-0004Gx-4H for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:47 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JKhqi-0004Ff-I7 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:45 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so746448fga.0 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=J55P+NP3zPbT99Xxjuc6RypzcrA+oor2sW1VQZ0mQcs=; b=rpltB2w4z1LvtMf3MdoTiph6L8kyQXvWk2Drvyb8/P6oqrZ1XFW3Eu4BkQ0p60tg8bilqHvDH/PB7O9zUPN2ye0+uBWcoS2V8y3F6tJCRFfpFZTevcWFcznADYaNGlSmOhhqhngvWW3dnEZtfdrT/zycqoB4TxLsRjxoWPTWoLw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Cj/LMIZMrxZEfeKQqmQ3zF2XY9S0I39zRXC7U7e/CSP4bBT1mT+z9XD8v2al67eY9QDAxBeaqDv6gQ0zE11hE8AnjIM+d0pFd+F6LVhaJupnMgNHe1kP9+Rn6dxnv0gxhPT3ddQpjjubuKPnWh67tagfDle63lh1Y+mMUWx5jiA= Received: by 10.86.58.3 with SMTP id g3mr2477165fga.1.1201818325851; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.86.71.17 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:25:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10801311425s585db7caj5812fa46061ca41b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 01:25:25 +0300 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: as the crow flies In-Reply-To: <200801311428.51590.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200801311142.14271.phma@phma.optus.nu> <3ccac5f10801311022oa495243r2fbfe2d1d1eca620@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160801311108g766b6a33pe2604bd84a376731@mail.gmail.com> <200801311428.51590.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3b95c99241ba903d X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14139 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 1/31/08, Pierre Abbat wrote: > Or the bird could be a hoatzin, a chicken, or an ostrich. It doesn't > matter much what kind of bird it is, as long as it can fly that long. > So maybe > {ki'otre li pamu ka'a da'i lo volcpi}? I believe this is unnecessary. If we assume some cooperation with the listener, then s/he probably realizes that cipni klamas the way that the cipnis usually klama. And if s/he tries to find a weird meaning, then no wording will be sufficient. To say first, "lo volcpi" claims only that we speak about bird that can fly, but not that it has used this ability to make this one voyage. To claim the later, vofli must be connected with klama, not with cipni. -- Cyril Slobin `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, http://wagner.pp.ru/~slobin/ `it means just what I choose it to mean' To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.