From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Mar 29 23:16:44 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JfqqS-0004h2-E5 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:16:44 -0700 Received: from squid17.laughingsquid.net ([72.32.93.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JfqqP-0004gu-2d for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:16:44 -0700 Received: (qmail 6652 invoked by uid 48); 29 Mar 2008 23:16:27 -0700 Received: from c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net (c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.233.37]) by webmail.ixkey.info (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <20080329231626.6cix632nmsgskgcg@webmail.ixkey.info> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:16:26 -0700 From: mungojelly@ixkey.info To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] za'e sresre --was Re: Re: the illogic of Lojban References: <47BDD838.2060308@perpetuum-immobile.de> <527c832e0802221325s21201601j1bd24b365107cd7@mail.gmail.com> <47BF4559.4070303@perpetuum-immobile.de> <527c832e0802222040o139bbfc9taf7baef1b99ebb64@mail.gmail.com> <20080329014920.dm1qilf2o8k40gwg@webmail.ixkey.info> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.5) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14268 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@ixkey.info Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 4:49 AM, me, wrote: >> To me an obvious first step is to draw a bright line between >> inward-facing language design (tinkering, experimentation, >> exploration), and outward-facing simplification and education. That's >> right, we should lower ourselves to the lie of simplification; don't >> respond to a simple question with a list of exceptions. I believe >> also that we ought to establish a taboo against unsolicited >> corrections: if someone says "mi cilre la lojban." (I learn Lojban, >> incorrectly phrased), we should say "mi gleki lo nu do cilre fi la >> lojban." (I'm happy you're learning about Lojban), positive >> reenforcement and providing a good model, not "Lojban can't be in the >> second place of cilre! The second place of cilre is a fact that's >> learned!", which is true but unhelpfully critical. Matt Arnold then responded : > I strongly agree. > -Eppcott .ie cai dai .ie cai I would like to share a related idea, that came to me in the form of a lujvo. I haven't been much of a lujvo-maker (what's a good lujvo for that?) up until now, having taken seriously the advice that lujvo-making is not for ninpre. I think that I'm no longer quite a ninpre, and I would like to try my hand at it. za'e zo sresre, srera zei srera, to make an error type-of error. As we all know, when an error has been made, the uncertainty of the situation following that error can often result in further errors, compounding tragedy upon tragedy. To sresre, in general, is to compound an error, to make another error because of the unstable situation resulting from a first error. In particular I would like to propose a Lojbanic form of the taboo against unrequested criticism: "ko na sresre" "Don't compound an error." Just because someone has made a mistake in grammar, don't add the additional mistake of making a ninpre feel unwelcome. The error that someone has most recently made is not necessarily [ba'u nai] the lesson that they are presently most open to receiving! mu'o mi'e la bret. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.