From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Apr 15 03:54:45 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JlioH-0005wX-4Z for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:54:45 -0700 Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.240.48]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JlioD-0005w0-6k for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:54:45 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080415105426.ZNZR15722.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:54:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id DmuZ1Z00F3y5FKc02muZug; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:54:34 -0400 Message-ID: <48048968.1000309@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:54:32 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Logflash References: <480369BC.5060506@lojban.org> <4803FFCA.7050604@lojban.org> <20080415012647.GD32736@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20080415012647.GD32736@digitalkingdom.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14368 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:07:22PM -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > >>LogFlash has the built-in capability to change any (or all, if you >>want to do that much work) of the keywords. Of course, if you >>end up with two words with the same keyword, then recall becomes >>guesswork. > > > That's not the point; a good flashcard system lets the *user* decide > if they got it right, because computers are stupid. If I find > myself saying "to go" for "klama", and I change it, then on the days > that I find myself saying "come", I'm wrong. If the computer > requires that I use particular keywords, *no* solution is correct. > > It's making you memorize the wrong thing, as I said. Obviously a philosophical difference between us, possibly based on how we use the language. I promote LogFlash because it worked - 20 years later despite an abysmal amount of actual usage in recent years, I can still pull up Lojban words based on the keywords (and because I mastered the entire set, and not just the ones most frequently used, I know which keywords have Lojban words, so that if I can paraphrase an English concept in terms of keywords, I have a start at a Lojban tanru). Other approaches like yours might be better for someone who wants to be able to participate in a basic conversation without a dictionary quickly; I can not and do not say that your philosophy is wrong or bad. The LogFlash algorithm was designed to teach rote mastery of a word set, not conversation. Still, if we ever update/rewrite the program, I imagine it would not be difficult to allow the user to override the program in deciding whether they were right or wrong. Then if you make a typo or use the wrong keyword, but you think you really know it, you can call yourself "correct". I know myself well enough to know that if I had used such an option, I probably would have cheated - it is simply too easy for "I knew that" morphing into "I got it right" when self-testing. I prefer a stupid computer which is entirely objective to my own subjective and imperfectly motivated mind. (for the same reason, I would never change the 6 repetitions rule for errors, even though I remember times when I had to do a ridiculous amount of typing for words I "really knew". But we put the option into the program to change the repetition count). lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.