From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 23 07:48:55 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 23 May 2008 07:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JzYZj-00025W-IS for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 23 May 2008 07:48:55 -0700 Received: from pi.meson.org ([66.134.26.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JzYZV-00024t-4Y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 23 May 2008 07:48:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 4367 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 10:48:30 -0400 Received: from nagas.meson.org (HELO ?192.168.1.101?) (1000@192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 23 May 2008 10:48:30 -0400 Message-ID: <4836D93C.7040303@kli.org> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:48:28 -0400 From: "Mark E. Shoulson" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] [Fwd: Why there is a MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA but no MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020409030900060002040405" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: 15 X-Spam-Bar: + X-archive-position: 14431 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mark@kli.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020409030900060002040405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there does in fact come about a MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP, presumably that would be semantically the more sensible character for Lojban's full-stop. (hope this attachment works...) ~mark --------------020409030900060002040405 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Why there is a MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA but no MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP?.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename*0="Why there is a MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA but no MODIFIER "; filename*1="LETTER FULL STOP?.eml" Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0 (2007-05-01) on pi.meson.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,FRT_PENIS1 autolearn=no version=3.2.0 Delivered-To: shoulson-kli@meson.org Received: (qmail 26894 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 06:51:52 -0400 Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (69.17.117.10) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 23 May 2008 06:51:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 10552 invoked from network); 23 May 2008 10:51:25 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 23 May 2008 10:51:25 -0000 Received: from unicode.org ([69.13.187.182]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JzUrn-00046G-NN for mark@kli.org; Fri, 23 May 2008 03:51:25 -0700 Received: from sarasvati.unicode.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4NA91hd032702; Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:01 -0500 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list unicode); Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4NA90Lj032637 for ; Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (p5B0D18E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.13.24.231]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML29c-1JzUCj2Lvw-0004a4; Fri, 23 May 2008 12:08:54 +0200 Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 12:08:49 +0200 From: Karl Pentzlin Reply-To: Karl Pentzlin Organization: www.europatastatur.de X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <182531164.20080523120849@acssoft.de> To: unicode@unicode.org Subject: Why there is a MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA but no MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------9B1101CAFBA478D" X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18E8bvqtVuUAzeT0fnDpuJK+0mSVsYSQB8TuXP uEBQGlzAWimxDQsginPH5P7Gggib9nzW5Rq7vjxLG/3JajlVMS AefTOVQH21MGh9RV8asE0dSRtdSxBcQ X-archive-position: 6727 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: unicode-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: unicode-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: karl-pentzlin@acssoft.de Precedence: bulk List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: unicode ------------9B1101CAFBA478D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The turned comma is used as a letter in Hawaiian (denoting the glottal stop). The punctution mark U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK has the correct appearance and could be used, but there is U+02BB MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA (which of course is better suited for use as a letter due to its properties). The full stop is used as a letter in Tlingit (spoken in Akaska and British Columbia), denoting the glottal stop (see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlingit_language or the attached picture of a museum display in Juneau, Alaska). Why there is no MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP in analogy to the MODIFIER LETTER TURNED COMMA? Has a proposal to encode a MODIFIER LETTER FULL STOP (MODIFIER LETTER BASELINE DOT seems to be a more appropriate name) based on such evidence (i.e. some more examples and a more thrustworthy source for its use than Wikipedia) any chance to be successful? - Karl Pentzlin ------------9B1101CAFBA478D Content-Type: IMAGE/JPEG; name="BILD0796a2.jpg" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BILD0796a2.jpg" /9j/4QQVRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAALAA4BAgAUAAAAkgAAAA8BAgAHAAAApgAAABABAgALAAAA rQAAABIBAwABAAAAAQAAABoBBQABAAAAuAAAABsBBQABAAAAwAAAACgBAwABAAAAAgAAADEB AgAcAAAAyAAAADIBAgAUAAAA5AAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAA+AAAAAAAAABEaWdp dGFsIFN0aWxsQ2FtZXJhAFJPTExFSQBSQ1AtNzQzMFhXAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAwODowNToyMyAxMTo1OTo0OAAjAJqCBQABAAAA ogIAAJ2CBQABAAAAqgIAACKIAwABAAAAAgAAACeIAwABAAAAyAAAAACQBwAEAAAAMDIyMAOQ AgAUAAAAsgIAAASQAgAUAAAAxgIAAAGRBwAEAAAAAQIDAAGSCgABAAAA2gIAAAKSBQABAAAA 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