From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 11 07:53:56 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K6Ri0-0002rf-E4 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:56 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K6Rhv-0002rV-Ob for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:56 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so2225060fga.0 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Smnc2yoPzkzoh+9jReqSleC5fIQu4UHM2AalQxcsluQ=; b=FFUJ/cgNXTSA5GU3Cb8FIzw/oyc+f0Mk03NBDuULoow1LmtVaxYR90GH7TYe9z3/yv yjq/KCL/bxm5pzPLCujd6ViFYYurSekO7ZulbnxfV9NiSJB2beqVWpWopKsXysXbEdEN CagQKI3ir3sSEYlQCe4QHQXt97SmZmX4CkPQw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=JoJfoTeCEnezpjAplV/Y5i+sZgBXMiWBu0Y2hMREywzz7F5SktfoRgMWcyZ6iPqg7L OYfGj2e/mEnpzf7tlxd8I/1oTe+yTmHLdiYj2dKNqqerjvlZkZTH+dPQURDwj/7v0xBj ++BkJOJI/JNqSP26XP0O248yWUNLDe1JwmF9s= Received: by 10.86.26.1 with SMTP id 1mr349944fgz.49.1213196025317; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560806110753m637b2513n404130ce79ffb5a4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:53:45 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: priority of se and na/nai in logical connectives In-Reply-To: <200806111604.31828.eldrikdo@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <200806110037.05049.eldrikdo@gmail.com> <925d17560806101650n2017e5easb0a46111465213dd@mail.gmail.com> <200806111604.31828.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14491 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 6/11/08, namor wrote: > Am Mittwoch 11 Juni 2008 01:50:13 schrieb Jorge Llambías: > > broda .isejunai brode > > = broda .iseju na brode > > = na brode .iju broda > > > > i.e. true whenever brode is false (FTFT). > > For the first line, "i.e. true whenever brode is false (FTFT)" is true. The three lines have the same meaning. The truth table FTFT refers to the two things connected by {isejunai}, i.e. broda brode broda.isejunaibrode T T F T F T F T F F F T > For the last line, however, this isn't true as far as I understand, as: {na > brode .iju broda} is FFTT, not FTFT. The third line is just another way of writing {broda isejunai brode}. The table FTFT corresponds to the truth values of the whole thing as a function of those of broda and brode > Consider a truth table for {na brode .iju broda} or {brode .inaju broda} > respectively. > Here, A is the first (brode) and B is the second (broda) > A B R(esult) > T T F [(not true) whether or not true] > T F F [(not true) whether or not false] > F T T [(not false) whether or not true] > F F T [(not false) whether or not false] > > > This example, again, suggests se has higher priority than nai. There is no {se} in {iju} or {inaju}, so how does that tell you anything about which has priority? If you add a {se}, it's {inaseju}, which has truth table TTFF, i.e. the same as {iseju}, because the negation affects the truth-irrelevant side. The fact that {inaseju} is grammatical and {isenaju} ungrammatical also indicates that the negation always negates the bridi on its side. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.