From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jun 28 08:59:31 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCcpn-0007fg-5q for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.172]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCcpi-0007fP-CT for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so921797wfg.25 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=OqNEeJmkyreqXQzpFgEuePt+F1m9oE3mExDplo/kCj8=; b=dGeCEk/FmHGeMecegK/4I90d11nHVl6jYNjxZk/CmsuHcdwJ1AoLiB9pmd+nJ6AN6z +zFtC/12vNQv139RGMIRjL/52dfuSXDxyp1ZVXuOLpGmACvdP3EYZboSDf9hdjGwPdlO M40Mlv+dN2yCrIT0toc81/jsKEAcYBQnZS7zc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=j97kfgVPX9imaGkYJGOxhWlKsYSnA8HwMcP4cA7I3P+xV86oaH4JcvHICM45DU6k3w ZNuzIWUTkuh7Uo7PJCaF0Lt4cG5iXCHgTrHkJUCAZeRG5VroN4liClSdO9OfoN6NEVCq 5neAN/hrPItU8dn5p5tL+lRa0szO0sQnEcoyA= Received: by 10.142.174.18 with SMTP id w18mr1021217wfe.325.1214668765096; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.50.4 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160806280859o6934c11ei179095eac2367a5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:59:24 -0400 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: lo nu mi senva In-Reply-To: <737b61f30806280214u350b56fcv75cbb23678eb8b03@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1087_4273195.1214668765087" References: <737b61f30806280214u350b56fcv75cbb23678eb8b03@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 31abbd7e86198179 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14558 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_1087_4273195.1214668765087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:14 AM, Chris Capel wrote: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:27 AM, james riley wrote: > > mi melbi senva ca lo purlamcte .i mi senva lo du'u mi co'a prami lo ninmu > > At first I thought you meant "I started liking women", as if you were > normally gay or asexual. Maybe {le} would be better here and at the > end? I think the way to specify "I fell in love with a woman", assuming that's what's meant, is {lo pa ninmu}. > > xrani mi lo ka cinmo .i lo nu terpa cu mukti lo nu mi mi fukpi gau mi .i > > I'm not really a jbocre myself, but "ka" doesn't sound quite right > here. I'd say either {cinmo xrani} or maybe {tu'a cinmo}. x3 of {xrani} is defined as a property (ka). > Instead of {gau mi}, maybe {fo tu'a mi} is more explicit? > The former says that I am the agentive cause of the copy. The latter says I am involved in the copying method in some way. I think if you expand the x4 to something like "the event that I manipulate my DNA" (I've assumed cloning as the sense here), that would be more explicit. Also, it strikes me: one isn't really a clone of oneself; the clone is a different entity, more like a twin. So {lo nu zo'e mi fukpi gau mi} might be more accurate. > ku'i lo mi fukpi goi fy na traji fukpi mu'i lonu terpa lonu cortu .i ny > > nelci fy .i ku'i fy na du mi .i ny na nelci fy .i ny na nelci mi .i mi > traji > > cortu .i lonu finti fy cu na bandu mi tu'u .i lo se senva na cinsne je'u > > > > .i ni'o fi la cizra pu preti mi fa lo du'u lo mo ninmu cu mi nelci > > This does not parse (apart from the ni'o thing) either in Lojgloss or > jbofi'e. Since I'm not actually very good with Lojban, it's only a > wild guess that you meant "ku" and not "cu". Funny Adam didn't mention > that. Maybe he didn't think it worth mentioning, or didn't even notice > it. But since I sort of rely on text being well-formed so I can parse > it, it really tripped me up. > > Also, I think you might have meant {fe la cizra}. And I'm not sure > what exactly you mean by {mo}--who? what sort? {lo du'u lo mo ninmu mi cu nelci} -- switch {mi} and {cu} to fix it. Also, although x1 of {preti} is defined as a quote, you could probably get away with {lo se du'u lo mo kau ninmu mi cu nelci} without objection. {fi la cizra} is correct; the x3 of preti is the questioner. > .i lo nu > > mi pensi cu krinu lo nu mi badri .i se ki'u bo no ninmu cu prami mi .i mi > pu > > "I think, and it makes me sad, and so no women love me."? > > > nelci lo'i so'o ninmu goi ny .i ki'u ny na nelci mi .i tu'a ny xrani mi > lo > > I suppose the intended meaning is "something about them hurts me > emotionally", but it seems like there might be a way to make that more > explicit without too much trouble. (Of course, I wouldn't have any > idea what that way would be.) Here's one way: -- .i tu'e mi pu nelci lo'i so'o ninmu goi ny .i ku'i ny na nelci mi tu'u .i la'e di'u xrani mi lo ka cinmo That would state that the event of the unrequited feelings is the injuring event. > ka cinmo .i lu'a ny simsa fi lo ka melbi menli It looks like you want to include a {simxu} in that last bridi. > .i mi na jundi lo xadni .i > > tu'a mi tumla lo nu mi na nelci lo ninmu kei mu'i lo nu terpa lo nu cortu > > I guess you mean {bapli} here, not {tumla} or {balpi} (which isn't a > word :-). I don't exactly understand what {lo ninmu} refers to here, > again. Any women at all? Any specific women? Is there an easy way to > be more clear about this? I took it as women in general. {loi ninmu}? mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_1087_4273195.1214668765087 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:14 AM, Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:27 AM, james riley <jimr1603@gmail.com> wrote:
> mi melbi senva ca lo purlamcte .i mi senva lo du'u mi co'a prami lo ninmu

At first I thought you meant "I started liking women", as if you were
normally gay or asexual. Maybe {le} would be better here and at the
end?

I think the way to specify "I fell in love with a woman", assuming that's what's meant, is {lo pa ninmu}.
 
> xrani mi lo ka cinmo .i lo nu terpa cu mukti lo nu mi mi fukpi gau mi .i

I'm not really a jbocre myself, but "ka" doesn't sound quite right
here. I'd say either {cinmo xrani} or maybe {tu'a cinmo}.

x3 of {xrani} is defined as a property (ka).
 
Instead of {gau mi}, maybe {fo tu'a mi} is more explicit?

The former says that I am the agentive cause of the copy. The latter says I am involved in the copying method in some way. I think if you expand the x4 to something like "the event that I manipulate my DNA" (I've assumed cloning as the sense here), that would be more explicit. Also, it strikes me: one isn't really a clone of oneself; the clone is a different entity, more like a twin. So {lo nu zo'e mi fukpi gau mi} might be more accurate.

> ku'i lo mi fukpi goi fy na traji fukpi mu'i lonu terpa lonu cortu .i ny
> nelci fy .i ku'i fy na du mi .i ny na nelci fy .i ny na nelci mi .i mi traji
> cortu .i lonu finti fy cu na bandu mi tu'u .i lo se senva na cinsne je'u
>
> .i ni'o fi la cizra pu preti mi fa lo du'u lo mo ninmu cu mi nelci

This does not parse (apart from the ni'o thing) either in Lojgloss or
jbofi'e. Since I'm not actually very good with Lojban, it's only a
wild guess that you meant "ku" and not "cu". Funny Adam didn't mention
that. Maybe he didn't think it worth mentioning, or didn't even notice
it. But since I sort of rely on text being well-formed so I can parse
it, it really tripped me up.

Also, I think you might have meant {fe la cizra}. And I'm not sure
what exactly you mean by {mo}--who? what sort?

{lo du'u lo mo ninmu mi cu nelci} -- switch {mi} and {cu} to fix it. Also, although x1 of {preti} is defined as a quote, you could probably get away with {lo se du'u lo mo kau ninmu mi cu nelci} without objection. {fi la cizra} is correct; the x3 of preti is the questioner.

> .i lo nu
> mi pensi cu krinu lo nu mi badri .i se ki'u bo no ninmu cu prami mi .i mi pu

"I think, and it makes me sad, and so no women love me."?

> nelci lo'i so'o ninmu goi ny .i ki'u ny na nelci mi .i tu'a ny xrani mi lo

I suppose the intended meaning is "something about them hurts me
emotionally", but it seems like there might be a way to make that more
explicit without too much trouble. (Of course, I wouldn't have any
idea what that way would be.)

Here's one way:
-- .i tu'e mi pu nelci lo'i so'o ninmu goi ny .i ku'i ny na nelci mi tu'u .i la'e di'u xrani mi lo ka cinmo

That would state that the event of the unrequited feelings is the injuring event.

> ka cinmo .i lu'a ny simsa fi lo ka melbi menli

It looks like you want to include a {simxu} in that last bridi.
 
.i mi na jundi lo xadni .i
> tu'a mi tumla lo nu mi na nelci lo ninmu kei mu'i lo nu terpa lo nu cortu

I guess you mean {bapli} here, not {tumla} or {balpi} (which isn't a
word :-). I don't exactly understand what {lo ninmu} refers to here,
again. Any women at all? Any specific women? Is there an easy way to
be more clear about this?

I took it as women in general. {loi ninmu}?

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

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