From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 29 09:32:22 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCzp7-00065S-JU for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:21 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.170]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCzor-000640-T0 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:21 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1278252wfg.25 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=kVPxsRMp5k7pxwFCcCGGfSxU1koZRSi5U9naFqMvbYo=; b=LU53M7BYGCJ3Y8aeoRTxqtME3dglJxZLGeapJ0Enbo8GIOLMxL2zSkZouKoKwu5bjZ jNkj5P9ZoMNUcW4XwkvSA9qpzHLe1MrNfdS73ZriTtKyrxn/aQ9MucvFC8IAjTrBQz9/ zAIdyZ20jrABrSx2A7J3CcObNAPy8apYh5h3o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=QSG/jic7cNqw+E0/W2eWb3Bhxrz9qBUSVawhTaofAFd46cyypveAjiSD6Fu/nGlfJi pBsXVXlK7sIsd6OslOhIiOueZGHzp5ll/J/7CNjtDGIytnqivbNrD9nZNB4TTJSwG4aJ BCvzme3n5sT5UHj7vyNwTInydctZkYro/W0+w= Received: by 10.143.1.12 with SMTP id d12mr1439624wfi.297.1214757124990; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.50.21 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30806290932q5a8edea5j84ebeb1fa103b723@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:32:04 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: vorme In-Reply-To: <925d17560806290859veffd525k26e503f3eed075c6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <737b61f30806282247gc923b9em1e0e11b4a0073abc@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560806290710g23838181na2f03c561df115b6@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30806290825w716f0101he77f95ffdf857a8c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560806290859veffd525k26e503f3eed075c6@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14573 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Chris Capel wrote: >> Would you regard it as a bug in the definition of {vorme} that it >> makes no mention of any such distinction between the x2 and x3? > > The problem is that doors are not necessarily only or mainly > one directional, but perhaps it would be better to specify that when > direction is relevant x2 is the "to" and x3 the "from". > > That would still not solve your problem though, because {lo se vorme}, > even if directional, could be "the place that the door leads to (from here)" > or "this place where I am and the door leads to". No, I think in the context of the passage, it's very clear that (the side it leads to) is (the other side). If that were in the definition, I would have understood that passage fine. This excerpt should make this clear: i la alis kargau le vrogai gi'e facki le du'u vy se jersi lo cmalu vorme noi na bramau lo ratcu kevna i abu cidni sanli gi'e catlu le se vorme noi traji le ka melbi kei fo lei purdi poi su'oroi se viska da i a'osaidai abu barkla le manku kumfa gi'e cadzu co jbini lei va zdani be loi carmi xrula be'o ku joi lei va lenku jinto (This contains some other changes I made, FYI.) In any case, a {vu} could be added if needed, like you said. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.