From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 01 09:29:36 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KaCHY-0002JW-9o for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:29:36 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.172]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KaCHV-0002JD-1O for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:29:36 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2011890wfa.25 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=0qxRIzKxBag5hfsYgChIH4ynbPYfspYHQ3l+3D559Co=; b=p5NPP/Z6V2QXkbneeok6uFI9sFY3W4dvmY8NhfraDvYGeRq9Qkebh3slK6cpnHb4iO bp0vT/CZEaQ8PeBd+cswH8dFuYCg1dFFx+YBWx5vUXOTAGfbdFZBYM71OAn+RrhQgjSv TjKzRSLdaQHH5P0euAPDpNDEW0GNg9EWURPmw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=wj3200zHZpSvcYroZw3qj7jANwwFUYRAcTpne20XmubbR9V4jbu/vdKyS7ltSFkFxP /ZIYJbPLfJiIodKWLuBpzpKqm64/yD42tzG6kLdGEZG2OEZMlLCvKEcz9U32zgKP/nqJ vCRzFLvu1pHJ9mjqJ+iczncsFbjgJpeRoerNs= Received: by 10.143.29.17 with SMTP id g17mr2159943wfj.239.1220286571360; Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.51.12 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:29:31 -0400 From: "Brett Williams" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: LA/LO/LE: Three Perspectives on Language In-Reply-To: <200809011714.49439.eldrikdo@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30235_20500930.1220286571358" References: <200809011714.49439.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14694 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_30235_20500930.1220286571358 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 9/1/08, Roman Naumann wrote: > > > Your boxes explanation for lo/le seems handy to me. > LA being but a sound-thing connective, however, confuses > me as until now I assumed {la cribe} for instance would (in translation) > be the one 'named bear', not the one 'named cribe'. > (l4b stated that IIRC) > When using a word of Lojban as a name, there is perhaps some connection to the meaning, or at least to the word. That is, the word "cribe" is still the word "cribe" when it's naming something, and continues to remind us all of a bear. OTOH, the word "cribe", which in its LO usage is restricted to labelling bears, when used with LA can be used as a label for absolutely anything you want. I can name my stomach "cribe" and then say that after I write this post I'm going to put some breakfast in "la cribe", and/or I can call you "cribe" and say that I'm writing an answer to a question posed by "la cribe", and/or I can name the very idea of naming everything "cribe" itself "cribe" and say that I'm writing to "la cribe" about "la cribe" before putting some cereal in "la cribe". I don't have to only name bear-like things "cribe", or only name one thing "cribe" at a time, etc.-- I can just use this label "cribe", and even though its mundane purpose is to label bears, I'm free to use it to label anything, as long as I spin myself the right amount of slack by saying "la" instead of "lo". mu'o mi'e la se ckiku ------=_Part_30235_20500930.1220286571358 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 9/1/08, Roman Naumann <eldrikdo= @gmail.com> wrote:

Your boxes explanation for lo/le seems handy to me.
LA being but a = sound-thing connective, however, confuses
me as until now I assumed {la= cribe} for instance would (in translation)
be the one 'named bear&= #39;, not the one 'named cribe'.
(l4b stated that IIRC)


When using = a word of Lojban as a name, there is perhaps&= nbsp;some connection to the meaning, or at le= ast to the word.  That is, the word "cribe&qu= ot; is still the word "cribe" when it= 9;s naming something, and continues to remind us&n= bsp;all of a bear. 

OTOH, the word "cribe", which in its LO&n= bsp;usage is restricted to labelling bears, w= hen used with LA can be used as a label&= nbsp;for absolutely anything you want.  I can=  name my stomach "cribe" and then s= ay that after I write this post I'm going to put&nb= sp;some breakfast in "la cribe", and/or I can= call you "cribe" and say that I'm writin= g an answer to a question posed by "la cribe&= quot;, and/or I can name the very idea of nam= ing everything "cribe" itself "cribe" and&nbs= p;say that I'm writing to "la cribe" = ;about  "la cribe" before putting some c= ereal in "la cribe".  I don't have&n= bsp;to only name bear-like things "cribe",&nb= sp;or only name one thing "cribe" at a&n= bsp;time, etc.-- I can just use this lab= el "cribe", and even though its mundane purpo= se is to label bears, I'm free to us= e it to label anything, as long as I spi= n myself the right amount of slack by saying "la" instead of= "lo".

mu'o mi'e la se ckiku


 
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