From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Sep 04 17:42:16 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KbPOy-0006rY-BV for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:42:16 -0700 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KbPOu-0006pA-D4 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:42:16 -0700 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so136370yxp.46 for ; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:42:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=qe6KAsKipiEuM5yNP2lv1daev7up7pXebIHrpLmiuss=; b=fXg6apIXst2c0lPMEzv2jZQkuXHHBLU2qQnEH+0e7KSH9uGVrNj4c1q1kXxdXGGycc lxRwMG1q0iRz+S8QvKGCdYu5dIisykSpJ4ESH1egUuVBrXzPQ5pgx1txYFIlxZ9MtqEx 6VjiZ2HPqoxujH4NhUdUNvk5w42Bb7j0T7wvw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=wNwPfeYl1Y9Mb5U+EAo9cpAwWKxykgC9ci7bNls4S6IwruGhi5eLrnKIhRv426Ftxy CYiAesicHXSgzMKrkBRy9LXqIukHYtsfUC6sQgLWJIPvMOCQgJ2yEE/uN0xyuQZPnw5A WAsNnEsLAqnfr0QlWEBVvtx83L1s152Fwl9NQ= Received: by 10.150.124.2 with SMTP id w2mr15391590ybc.170.1220575330955; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.199.20 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Sep 2008 17:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30809041742ue40840cxa002b95946082ce5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 19:42:10 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: LA/LO/LE: Three Perspectives on Language In-Reply-To: <925d17560809031145u71442508i38bfb7c62272de3d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560809011537i54345eebk260c95e46369578@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560809031145u71442508i38bfb7c62272de3d@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14698 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 13:45, Jorge Llambías wrote: > Obviously non-human. Such "center embedded" phrases are notoriously > hard for humans to parse: Oddly, that link to center embedding leads (with one intermediate page) to this[1] page containing what appears to be a rather egregious misrepresentation of Lojban, Loglan, and the split between them. [1] http://specgram.com/CLI.2/02.mlp.html "You could demand more precision from language. If you travel too far down that road you arrive at Loglan and Lojban, the so-called "logical" constructed languages. But their history clearly illustrates both that human nature and politics will prevail over any constraints of language, and that humans are not adept at ferreting out ambiguity in language to the nth degree. The early proponents of this "universal" language, which is geekier than Klingon and less useful than Volapük, fought so bitterly that they divided their already limited resources into two isomorphic but mutually unintelligible languages. That, and the fact that being so carefully logical is so hard that no one can speak either language at speed. And, lo, I have digressed." Odd coincidence. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.