From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Sep 13 11:05:58 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KeZVM-0004fU-JO for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:57 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.251]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KeZV9-0004ec-JH for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:54 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so1393672rvf.46 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Pk5lM4T7f6ph9ZzOeFmvhFFiP2XcdofXY57Y+hVLJC4=; b=iAzwjUZMza3XueUKgtyA4nygNwgMha+ci8GohXJuKGj82S2O0kYLZ6FUzJz3NqhxKz +0bQwNhc78ADQmCHnKvIo/noVqbzpdQHSUgswj65KFKaeEv1gXn1E3+HIIV6RmtYk9Sh DA9AU99yUhsrodDQLCI4a2fhRXVm82sSOXLWQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=CJEkc7P88ePOkGLPVvNC6zNRRp19/2dSn9KLj9KEgUgxX4iXCFmzBnwmpB76QQ4kE+ UrIUaBybWLkIg/vaVCl+yiVBPQy1xLSiVQ0jYJAC5bzZQe+8L//88MGOlzzT5TrsQZ87 nravoJWrIVzTdQqdl3VYs4gaLinBzbKI6+CO4= Received: by 10.141.170.10 with SMTP id x10mr3504504rvo.221.1221329141296; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.153.20 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:05:41 -0700 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: How many fluent speakrs of Lojban are there? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14733 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Probably a half-dozen fluent speakers at a time, I'd guess. That's vastly more successful than almost any other artificial language. Other than, modern Hebrew, Esperanto, Lojban, Klingon, and a couple of others, artificial languages never get even _one_ fluent speaker. If a half-dozen speakers is considered a low number, that is not because Lojban is bad, but because hardly anyone ever has any reason to want to learn an artificial language. Consider a Venn diagram with a circle of all the people who are interested in artificial languages. There is a tiny circle nested inside it, of all the people with the serious commitment to be able to attain fluency in an artificial language. The serious, committed circle is truly tiny. Most of that tiny circle is taken up by two smaller circles: modern Hebrew and Esperanto. Hardly more than a half dozen people are left over in the serious committed circle, and I'd wager more of them learn Lojban than anything else. I have no problem remembering sumti places because they're almost all completely intuitive. When I set up flashcards to memorize each word, I also set up flashcards to memorize the non-obvious sumti places that surprised me. Remembering three sumti places in a word is the same thing as remembering three words. I wouldn't say Lojban is suitable for computers rather than humans, but I would say that it can bridge the gap between them. It's definitely more suitable for computers than any other language that humans can speak. - Eppcott On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM, arpgme wrote: > > How many fluent speakrs of Lojban are there? > > Author: arpgme > > To me, Lojban seems too logical and non-natural for me to learn fluently. > > You have all of these words with "sumti" and if people use words like "fa,fe,fi" you are expected to know which "x" means what. I don't think the human brain can work like that, at least, not fluently. > > This language looks like something that should be used for computers and not humans. > > Do you have difficulties remembering all of these cmavo and sumti places? > > How many fluent speakers are there of Lojban? > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.