From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Sep 16 18:05:06 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KflTe-0003V2-5h for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:05:06 -0700 Received: from cpe-071-075-215-096.carolina.res.rr.com ([71.75.215.96] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KflTa-0003Tb-QF for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:05:06 -0700 Received: from chausie (chausie.ixazon.lan [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B15CE79B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:04:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: multi-part names Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:04:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <48CFC71A.3060203@ropine.com> <97f5058c0809160825v752c9dc3tda3059fcf159b13e@mail.gmail.com> <48CFE9A5.6000400@ropine.com> In-Reply-To: <48CFE9A5.6000400@ropine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809162104.53666.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 2.2 X-Spam-Score-Int: 22 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-archive-position: 14765 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tuesday 16 September 2008 13:15:17 Seth Gordon wrote: > In Russian, if you see "Sergeyevich" in someone's name, you know that > person's father is named "Sergey". I'm looking for a Lojban grammatical > construction that conveys the same kind of message. IIUC, as far as the > grammar is concerned, "la mixa,IL. serGEIvic. gyrbaTCOF." is a token > with no internal structure. There isn't any. I have thought of using "bes" for this, as "ben" is used in Hebrew, thus "la mixa,IL bes.sergeis. gyrbaTCOF.", but there is no distinction between that and someone named Bess. There are many name formats in the world, and you just have to know them to understand names given in them. Some of them are: Hungarian: Family name comes first. Edward Teller is Teller Ede. Indonesian: Family names are rare. Sukarno is just Sukarno. His daughter, Megawati Sukarnoputri, has a patronymic ("putri" is from Sanskrit). English: Many people have middle names, but not all. Married women often, but not always, have a maiden name before their married last name. If the maiden name happens to be a common middle name, you can't tell from the name which it is. Spanish: Maiden name comes after the married name, separated by "de". Men have two last names, separated by "y". The maiden or maternal name is often omitted or reduced to an initial (José Cruz D.). Icelandic: Most people have a given name and a patronymic, but no family name. I've thought that there ought to be a culture where men pass one family name to their sons and women another family name to their children, but I've never heard of one. As to titles, you could translate them by names, but I think "Secretary" is best handled as an appositive. Pierre To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.