From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Nov 09 04:41:33 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kz9bh-0004So-0g for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:41:33 -0800 Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.191]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kz9be-0004SX-3T for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:41:32 -0800 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i2so2324778mue.6 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:41:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=gmA/7SFR6DA17TH30FhzSlnvSlJHmmOelmoJxHIRZfk=; b=HAIEd1zPFQnpdzFmVvPW35w0AjgPJqRzHj3v6Dw5Hb+CiR164b/D2bE8aEdFPpg8JY Mrqv/97pLqd5U37FJDPwVYUyMjx1OznsF7QnQIeiiOLgVMa28fJO5SlxqZodo74kfVWE yTuVghPqg/EX9rPqIn7rJnwKsB33WWTXiqLpI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=eWbniFW42bgsOiEDI0QVbJ3MstlSx3wqxtEm+HAlLO9ejEoaV8n0hTIGSyGZJ0pjQv AWrkbB6/xJSfTzCDZBc+Bw9WYbOA7N23hyopSx6l0qpDnCdv/aagY7e2clcfekRtY+cY mWw/+oFSQVjeFaGhBuvp1l+oERLIZ/pr9VKQo= Received: by 10.103.226.20 with SMTP id d20mr2992619mur.22.1226234488002; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:41:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.199.18 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:41:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4de8c3930811090441g386021dcl75873a0d442a0da6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:41:27 +0100 From: tijlan To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <925d17560811081102l72b38fefp6a3adae34d562d71@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_65881_29991454.1226234487983" References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <200811072307.26737.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930811080122n7f91eea3v53fc4cce02d4d343@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811081102l72b38fefp6a3adae34d562d71@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: e5d05a7ed437b808 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14968 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_65881_29991454.1226234487983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline 2008/11/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tijlan wrote: > > > > The speaker is not questioning a specific why. And, in my opinion, "ni'= i" > is > > a generic one, encompassing the other whys, like "nu" is to the other > NUs. > > The sentence can be rephrased as: > > > > ma nibli lo nu fe'eso'iroi vorme > > > > This "ma" can be answered by either "krinu" or "mukti" or "rinka" or "s= e > > jalge", depending on what it actually turns out to be. > > I would have said "ki'u ma" is the most general one, "what is the > explanation for ...?", and not "from what can we deduce that ...?" > which is what "ni'i ma" asks. I guess a logical entailment can also > work as an explanation: All Russian-style buildings have many doors. > This is a Russian-style building. Therefore, this building has many > doors. That's the kind of answer provided, so "ni'i ma" is not > ncessarily wrong, but I don't see that reasons, motives and physical > causes can be logical entailments. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > I co'a understand more tu'a "ki'u" & "ni'i", thank you. mi'e tijlan ------=_Part_65881_29991454.1226234487983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline 2008/11/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tijlan <picos.picos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The speaker is not questioning a specific why. And, in my opinion, &qu= ot;ni'i" is
> a generic one, encompassing the other whys, like "nu" is to = the other NUs.
> The sentence can be rephrased as:
>
> ma nibli lo nu fe'eso'iroi vorme
>
> This "ma" can be answered by either "krinu" or &qu= ot;mukti" or "rinka" or "se
> jalge", depending on what it actually turns out to be.

I would have said "ki'u ma" is the most general one, &q= uot;what is the
explanation for ...?", and not "from what can we deduce that ...?= "
which is what "ni'i ma" asks.  I guess a logical entailm= ent can also
work as an explanation: All Russian-style buildings have many doors.
This is a Russian-style building. Therefore, this building has many
doors. That's the kind of answer provided, so "ni'i ma" i= s not
ncessarily wrong, but I don't see that reasons, motives and physical causes can be logical entailments.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list= -request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


I co'a understand more tu'a &quo= t;ki'u" & "ni'i", thank you.

mi'e tij= lan
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