From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 10 15:56:53 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kzgcn-0005dU-B8 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:53 -0800 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.148]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kzgcj-0005dM-UK for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:53 -0800 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so962133eyk.58 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=qwwKIWhgB8MJWhebk1u5hBjuFqx7wY0O3X6psBlIQaM=; b=ZzMx8UeYDNdweTs9nl/gROr1zSPPQl/rqn3XU5cUYrhAW39xUAn+f8CJC1Bcz/Hbiq cPMgdAi2QYqoqSqFw8VzvL40EZ3aLt0rXsf5ha0iFBHLt14D/MvWbRJrIUSJ2E2ohgBE 3i0oRPBmw2jw2/2ywRVZzdNJfvTWjFVXvnb+g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=EMpjoPB+GZ8yviy6Dri9J6qfpF4wprCxTEkDLFWZ+xCc9XzjmEhVpuuBTO2HnsgAVd Mwu5WPMOwy+WJMc8sbLqLy4Wp8oV28tiLz5mbYhii+17BTv8usJ6FZt2ubhhm72aNRFT elDUjgadjG92mIF+k8ycYEpATsOuDZA1JoqMo= Received: by 10.103.1.5 with SMTP id d5mr4137203mui.29.1226361408336; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.173.4 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <16e4f29a0811101556rfea6759k672dd011cecc09d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:56:48 -0800 From: "Elias Friedman" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <925d17560811100828k50ff608ehc6a5ae96446807ef@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70142_13385713.1226361408323" References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <200811072307.26737.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930811080122n7f91eea3v53fc4cce02d4d343@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811081102l72b38fefp6a3adae34d562d71@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811100828k50ff608ehc6a5ae96446807ef@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14987 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: skierb27@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_70142_13385713.1226361408323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline To the best of my knowledge, "I will buy butter" is not a motive."I have ru= n out of butter" is a motive. On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wro= te: > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Adam D. Lopresto > wrote: > > > > I've always thought that {se ja'e ma} is the most general version. It'= s > > just > > "as a result of", without specifying what kind of result. > > I think {se jalge} definitely covers {rinka}, but I'm not sure it > covers all kinds of {mukti}. A motive can be an event that is > (potentially) in the future of the event it motivates. Can a result > occur before what it results from? For example: > > lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu mukti lo nu mi klama le zarci > I will buy butter motivates I go to the market. > I go to the market to buy butter. > > lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu krinu lo nu mi klama le zarci > I will buy butter is the reason I go to the market. > I go to the market because I will buy butter. > > both sound acceptable. I'm not sure about: > > ? lo nu mi klama le zarci cu jalge lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne > ? I go to the market is the resut of I will buy butter. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > ------=_Part_70142_13385713.1226361408323 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline To the best of my knowledge, "I will buy butter" is not a motive.=
"I have run out of butter" is a motive.

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Adam D. Lop= resto <adam@pubcrawler.org>= ; wrote:
>
> I've always thought that {se ja'e ma} is the most general vers= ion.  It's
> just
> "as a result of", without specifying what kind of result.
I think {se jalge} definitely covers {rinka}, but I'm not sure it
covers all kinds of {mukti}. A motive can be an event that is
(potentially) in the future of the event it motivates. Can a result
occur before what it results from? For example:

 lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu mukti lo nu mi klama le zarci
 I will buy butter motivates I go to the market.
 I go to the market to buy butter.

 lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu krinu lo nu mi klama le zarci
 I will buy butter is the reason I go to the market.
 I go to the market because I will buy butter.

both sound acceptable. I'm not sure about:

 ? lo nu mi klama le zarci cu jalge lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne
 ? I go to the market is the resut of I will buy butter.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


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