From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 10 15:58:07 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kzgdz-0005gl-RA for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:07 -0800 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Kzgdw-0005gR-D1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:07 -0800 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so962341eyk.58 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=DkIgX5jM1lgtfaDAX0ncUk+N2SvZC/9ft9tV3lKxoug=; b=gFarh1kSQF+GUQcgqrqce/TzmjmWZ/4TPJhuNoHruOu/mo4VyWnDw2Z71mBBZj4Bog NPlsObppMis0HQOmjVhKtLdi3WpC7Ws2LVgKy09vfB7UzqjEJmbs8q1Z1e4EFtKBXP4l HK5MF6cTjpWnDdvKBgutvpVX3MURmVGf1J+q4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=qlw18bkiVMSfm49E0yjO1273ZbvPwsHJIo4kb3RJ2Qu2h7CaiHTtBg1WuOQm1323Mr sVw4uPzogx/yyOh5WkhfSHOJcPT5yQL9v6VyGCkzl4VefljSJc82oiCwFHGa2MK0UU+V 5cIPoTDZ4qYrjDjZV8EtulCMsOUzL249R+zrQ= Received: by 10.103.244.10 with SMTP id w10mr4123197mur.71.1226361483054; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.173.4 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <16e4f29a0811101558j1799d99bj7900b70c0b55c6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:58:02 -0800 From: "Elias Friedman" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <16e4f29a0811101556rfea6759k672dd011cecc09d1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70154_28592806.1226361483040" References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <200811072307.26737.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930811080122n7f91eea3v53fc4cce02d4d343@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811081102l72b38fefp6a3adae34d562d71@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811100828k50ff608ehc6a5ae96446807ef@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101556rfea6759k672dd011cecc09d1@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 14988 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: skierb27@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_70154_28592806.1226361483040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Or, more correctly, "I need butter, and I have run out of butter" is a motive. On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Elias Friedman wrote: > To the best of my knowledge, "I will buy butter" is not a motive."I have > run out of butter" is a motive. > > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas w= rote: > >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Adam D. Lopresto >> wrote: >> > >> > I've always thought that {se ja'e ma} is the most general version. It= 's >> > just >> > "as a result of", without specifying what kind of result. >> >> I think {se jalge} definitely covers {rinka}, but I'm not sure it >> covers all kinds of {mukti}. A motive can be an event that is >> (potentially) in the future of the event it motivates. Can a result >> occur before what it results from? For example: >> >> lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu mukti lo nu mi klama le zarci >> I will buy butter motivates I go to the market. >> I go to the market to buy butter. >> >> lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu krinu lo nu mi klama le zarci >> I will buy butter is the reason I go to the market. >> I go to the market because I will buy butter. >> >> both sound acceptable. I'm not sure about: >> >> ? lo nu mi klama le zarci cu jalge lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne >> ? I go to the market is the resut of I will buy butter. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to >> lojban-list-request@lojban.org >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or i= f >> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >> >> > ------=_Part_70154_28592806.1226361483040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Or, more correctly, "I need butter, and I have run out of butter"= is a motive.

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:5= 6 PM, Elias Friedman <skierb27@gmail.com> wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, "I will b= uy butter" is not a motive.
"I have run out of butter" i= s a motive.


On= Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Adam D. Lopr= esto <adam@pubc= rawler.org> wrote:
>
> I've always thought that {se ja'e ma} is the most general vers= ion.  It's
> just
> "as a result of", without specifying what kind of result.
I think {se jalge} definitely covers {rinka}, but I'm not sure it
covers all kinds of {mukti}. A motive can be an event that is
(potentially) in the future of the event it motivates. Can a result
occur before what it results from? For example:

 lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu mukti lo nu mi klama le zarci
 I will buy butter motivates I go to the market.
 I go to the market to buy butter.

 lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne cu krinu lo nu mi klama le zarci
 I will buy butter is the reason I go to the market.
 I go to the market because I will buy butter.

both sound acceptable. I'm not sure about:

 ? lo nu mi klama le zarci cu jalge lo nu mi ba te vecnu lo matne
 ? I go to the market is the resut of I will buy butter.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.



------=_Part_70154_28592806.1226361483040-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.