From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 12 07:33:08 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0HiN-0002Vl-N0 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:08 -0800 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0HiJ-0002VS-15 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:07 -0800 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so572513fks.2 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=tnVjCvE9Le2IJO0IYlyQ+QKnrYEvP1CSBPlahloJO0Y=; b=wJyIBSVJKYRRSm0LppsscoU7fznvq7KGna9Whpw1H36Zs3xvivLL3sYoBGGJNMhFDo 6bTGmcV+u+besxsEyfqPXnJ5w1z6WRH5QGxbCNyrRpBTGwXnMcpQeUZhkczgqHzyjgpD seuCtJ1/7jgSsce6RypHgQiT88TleNRSkymzM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=SmnCQ49s2H5fH4OIH0/kwin0euTxRJxY3F8GnFaXf1dg+n1TDcmZGH2WdMReXUJ6/m VLg6DCWxa2SJHXsYG3GPPGltFg7sJO7HrX/qMsSaPq/E/N85YuOxpYUQA7iK98qRK68m YClMorou8ZNvIc8ppW03hVXjxssc7MjkmsCRo= Received: by 10.181.23.2 with SMTP id a2mr2877614bkj.166.1226503981469; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.181.147.8 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:33:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4de8c3930811120733s2f9d5eeaxf42a1d4f37421d34@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:33:01 +0100 From: tijlan To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <16e4f29a0811112039o4253bb8aqc979b3210ce67c3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101556rfea6759k672dd011cecc09d1@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101558j1799d99bj7900b70c0b55c6a@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800r501676d5id975aa96c932c19b@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800y7ede0d46vc027081f0bd1179f@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101950t59fa46cfof4fd83489ddcd8fd@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811110605u73597c74ye280491656add7e8@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811111706t4e27477fu61c4e669360a1793@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811111904s4868767ci5dff53f0cf140a24@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811112039o4253bb8aqc979b3210ce67c3@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6a23db5527c136fe X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15012 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list 2008/11/12 Elias Friedman : > The action "to buy butter" cannot be a motive. I didn't say it was an action; I said it was an intention, an idea. We can be motivated by ideas. > A motive is something that causes a person to do a certain thing. .ie > "I will buy butter" is not an intention; it is a future action. Is a perceived future action really an action or an idea? When we say "I will buy butter", are we reporting an action or an idea? > If someone were to remember his or her intent to buy butter, that would not > be motivation to buy butter; it would simply be a recollection of his or her > intent. And what would happen to them after recollecting their intent? Wouldn't they *do something* (including "staying in their house")? Is it impossible to suppose at least that the recollection can motivate them to re-observe the state "I need butter, and I have run out of them", which means an intention as an idea *can* motivate? > The motive would remain as "I have run out of butter, and I need > butter". "I intend to buy butter" cannot be a motive because such an intent > is not a reason for the person to buy butter. "I have run out of butter, and I need butter" as a reason can be sufficiently referred with "krinu". If you are asked "Why do you go to the market", you can justify your action with "krinu". It need not be restricted to "mukti" alone. "mukti", on the other hand, is more about incentives which need not be logically (nibli) or rationally (krinu) grounded. As a motive to go to the market, you can point to a feeling or emotion: "Why do you go to the market?" "Because I feel like it." ("My feeling motivates.") Likewise: "What does motivate you to go to the market?" "The idea of going to there." or "My will." ("My will" itself can be motivated by yet another factor, which can be, in this case, the perception of "I have run out of butter, and I need butter".) > An intention is not a personal condition; it is a course of action that a > person intends to follow. If koha has a particular course of action that koha intends to follow, it conditions that koha's future action is likely to be of a particular one. Koha's intention conditions koha's action. Therefore an individual intention is an individual condition. mu'o mi'e tijlan To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.