From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Nov 13 05:29:21 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0cG9-000475-L8 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:21 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0cG6-00046x-7A for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:21 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 30so443332nfu.46 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=imrAfKM+0f12s0S3JL5p4DONHMqANnkaCYhc109ZiYQ=; b=tqUcHSgzsBW0IBRtcpK4b/rVCLEulKMWWU4wfewIM2+0EcWh7kj7j1wUsCwSK7KYu4 HMddZo0AinSAFn4ZLITb+q4hdBgDjQORHASgix0yReWwbLHygqtUqWf0gwxd1LUHEsz+ fWzUZ/vE5FONTREg/16DUR0SOo6/TwOV4g45s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=NFzWT8yp3E1SJUyjgjLEW2gH5YJIiL6lDxQClSx2XSXN8k/VbYcnCsH/eRf1MsFHUZ 13PQJnVCFamzdX+4lHyWwNbgSZCpAWVb2qcFfQYRJgBc5UmwN3X+iZsMyNWiOBHaKCH9 0Kac2SkcuM3QfgrVykyUYaNAW6FkLPKexGNew= Received: by 10.103.1.5 with SMTP id d5mr5834719mui.29.1226582956459; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.243.4 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:29:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4de8c3930811130529g7a7d0d0ds4962781bb8fdfd8e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:29:16 +0100 From: tijlan To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: le gusta co minde mutce In-Reply-To: <16e4f29a0811121807h7324615fn1b0780705d3acffa@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0810260835h78654a7dr11b5b5c0957bce70@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800r501676d5id975aa96c932c19b@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811101800y7ede0d46vc027081f0bd1179f@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811101950t59fa46cfof4fd83489ddcd8fd@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811110605u73597c74ye280491656add7e8@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811111706t4e27477fu61c4e669360a1793@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811111904s4868767ci5dff53f0cf140a24@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811112039o4253bb8aqc979b3210ce67c3@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930811120733s2f9d5eeaxf42a1d4f37421d34@mail.gmail.com> <16e4f29a0811121807h7324615fn1b0780705d3acffa@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 74197cfe53997333 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15017 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list 2008/11/13 Elias Friedman : > It does not matter whether or not you said that "to buy butter" was an > action, as it is an action regardlessly. The fact that the linguistic unit contains a verb does not necessarily mean its utterer has a factual action in mind. It basically means the utterer is signifying an *idea* of an action/verb. > "To buy butter" is not an > intention. Whether or not one can be motivated by ideas is not relevant, as > "to buy butter" is not a motivational idea. > Whether or not "I will buy butter" is an action or an idea is not relevant; > "I will buy butter" is still not an intention. > If someone recalled his or her intent to buy butter, the intent is not a > motive for the person to recall the state "I have run out of butter, and I > need butter"; rather, the person would be motivated to recall such a state > by his or her desire or need to recall. > "I need butter" is a mukti, as "I need butter" is a motive for an event, the > purchase of butter; "I have run out of butter" is a krinu, as "I have run > out of butter" is the reason for the person's need of butter. > A person's will by itself cannot serve as a motive, as a motive is a reason > for someone to do something. > Although a person's intention can condition his or her action, his or her > intention is not a condition. I'm not going to insist on my point any more. I'm prepared to interpret "to buy butter" in either way. I'll let usage decide. English is not even my first language. I have no reason to specify how Lojban should interact with English. mi'e tijlan To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.