From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Nov 15 15:21:30 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L1USI-00012H-Jm for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:30 -0800 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L1USE-000124-PF for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:30 -0800 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2131148wfa.25 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=GqHWo1OaRnwn/29FPipD3yX/FUVKpD9dCn0qDCRIxcw=; b=XiQSwI+X7YFyQ5ECz/fNbPg7rrUKiuaZub0LgZtWLe5hsW30Kwpah66wgl1ZlqM0yH oVWG9j25csemTswKnmMYi6NOlY9ez5WHSlyZKAHmHL69KpBqILx8lxRBIpJX5de0piPj o+wV7/yrQx60nIie/9JQXHK9KWQ7cbkcEQQEg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=kg+om34KW2uDyN/8qB+w/N4vcJl7y24I01YHD/AHeFGpVF/koUAkf7wn3MRvYH/A3G 3eul1KJ/DQLugXjObKcJSPe6eDfIlKgc2//JTQIKfRt44usWcctsWs177k2Hy1sK2W8x 1IW7zZQuGiuVDQHyqBgp5TfsY/f3lt/mIv4Gg= Received: by 10.142.177.7 with SMTP id z7mr1152682wfe.132.1226791285844; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.11.8 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:21:25 -0800 From: "Stephen Pollei" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Annotated PEG grammar In-Reply-To: <925d17560811151405j69b216b5g1b2fdaed51244418@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <737b61f30811151245n352f23dala9685c894d991550@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811151405j69b216b5g1b2fdaed51244418@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15024 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: stephen.pollei@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 11/15/08, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Chris Capel wrote: > > http://pdf23ds.net/lojban/Annotated%20Grammar.html > > Here's a very unfinished version of an annotated grammar. Anybody want > > to see it finished? > I wouldn't mind seeing the annotations finished me too > I think that's a > useful thing to have, but what I would really want is seeing the rules > cleaned up, including some minor adjustments to the grammar. This > grammar is not official yet so we do have some room to tinker. Yes I think that maybe making sure that the grammar can handle things like the magic words in a way most can agree on would be great. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magic+Words&bl I'm not sure what other proposed changes might need a tiny bit of tweaking. Also there might be minor things that could be changed that don't really change things much. {paragraph <- (statement / fragment) (I !jek !joik !joik-jek free* (statement / fragment)?)*} could be changed to {paragraph <- (statement / fragment) (I !joik-jek free* (statement / fragment)?)*} or {paragraph <- (statement / fragment) (I !jek !joik free* (statement / fragment)?)*} . given {joik-jek <- joik free* / jek free*} it's slightly redundant. > > For example, why is joik-jek up there in the text rule instead of > being a fragment? I can't really speak to Jorge Llambías's suggestions about fragments. It seems sensible to me, but I lack the experience and knowlege to really evaluate his suggestion properly. > > BTW, the comment about free* and UI is not exactly rght. In fact UI is > not an instance of free, and can occur in a few more places than > free*. For example, UI can occur between CMENE and free can't. That's > another thing that should be changed, free should be able to appear > anywhere that it doesn't cause a problem. "text-part-2" , "sumti-6" , and "free" all have CMENE+ rules and there is a indicators rule that might be appropriate or not. indicators <- FUhE? indicator+ indicator <- ((UI / CAI) NAI? / DAhO / FUhO) !BU If you created a rule like: names <- CMENE+ indicators? (CMENE+ indicators?)* and then used "names" instead of "CMENE+" inside those three rules would that be close to what you suggest? names <- (CMENE+ indicators / )* CMENE+ hmm you did say between, not sure if you can do a zero-width match like that. text-part-2 <- (CMENE+ / indicators?) free* sumti-6 <- ... / LA free* relatives? CMENE+ free* / ... free <- ... / vocative relatives? CMENE+ free* relatives? DOhU? / ... text-part-2 <- (names / indicators)? free* sumti-6 <- ... / LA free* relatives? names free* / ... free <- ... / vocative relatives? names free* relatives? DOhU? / ... Hmm now that I look at it free also doesn't seem to list UI either. post-clause <- spaces? si-clause? !ZEI-clause !BU-clause indicators* that probably does much of the UI usage soak up. CMENE-clause <- CMENE-pre CMENE-post CMENE-pre <- pre-clause CMENE spaces? CMENE-post <- post-clause SPACE CMENE-no-SA-handling <- pre-clause CMENE post-clause And it looks like the CMENE stuff already might soak up indicators. Not sure. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.