From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Dec 17 05:21:24 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LCwL6-00034y-KD for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:24 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.251]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LCwL2-000346-Pm for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:24 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so4658953rvf.46 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=KJ6e9GyoLecHj+aaThtBZwghZuMtxX0XMH9dyn8dfoA=; b=Sugj1toPkFLleiizNPblQOUbq1nNRgK1Bts1yojUrf1Nwx2lbAVzQc+MqwFhjFhM2b 4sNOLbnwY+Pi+LZeFpXXDLUc5u2XssxfZepdiFeINs+mdUrzF/Iy63ukkQNm2zqmn4dA MbboCTXlFF9k7qfPUKdpktQBVe0iAhwHDz9xk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=AGK/znbjPIX0ZOAw5Q6et6YWZUiUDOnvNI1iqWbiFE1ZjBIj2N+izzXotwIDfxYvi+ mGzlmuNDNGMy+hqvCYGkhquo2tp1NKSmGNv6lkIBI/UJ7Za+W1xOZ2+HOndpWWEfHtRX wlEGAVmSBeW+DoshpE3C8KWImk1NzIdXcIwME= Received: by 10.141.194.6 with SMTP id w6mr376272rvp.257.1229520077987; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.194.15 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:21:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560812170521l25cd32bar964ae19c64a6c2d8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:21:17 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: About the negators In-Reply-To: <96f789a60812170455k54431b6tfe69c2f528bed595@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <70697fa40812152124u39a177a2hc52d604e9a30e469@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560812160908j49f6d818y1fdcdf21bfddfb28@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812161137u6919c05cyf5958e9949ccfaf7@mail.gmail.com> <200812161859.52969.phma@phma.optus.nu> <925d17560812161637y2caa5a41i32372fc376cf603a@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812170455k54431b6tfe69c2f528bed595@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15104 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > I suggest this conversation has now grown well beyond the limits of > lojban-beginners list. (I am responding in lojban-list.) > Suffice it to say that while the use of na is > well-defined in simple bridi, its meaning in very complicated sentence with > both existential qualifiers and bridi tails is not well-defined. If {su'o da na broda gi'e brode} counts as a "very complicated sentence", then the characterization of Lojban as "spoken predicate logic" is almost a sham. The relative scopes of quantifiers, logical connectives and negation should be very straightforward. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.