From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Dec 22 05:58:04 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LElIK-0007p0-H2 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:58:04 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.246]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LElIH-0007oJ-49 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:58:04 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so2210159rvf.46 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:58:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=znlkSLt15wd1iHpW4ytv+hw56RT0iFobfZtcM2P2jPM=; b=c1bXAleSZUcNh65l1kyePhr4uELfKToKEk3tXUFr3066PnM0pcE9gZxyeI10Qlu5Zw MZa3MWMzomttvGmFTgDiErBMK7Gkzyjmn5QirbS1ACMSRwpsYwQgZOeveyznDmjoykM4 trVBgFBaLy006t9u8jYz9gAYCC5t3E+qSRVVk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=pM1+TyoK6PZthJ3AUY56RZrda74yqJGz0savHkQs2RQYa672FAb8Fwe0RCwYG9/f4/ fvVDIv3kzpA7+aDL7lVRXuiTreAEw1e4VHog17zY5WedfZoOHsg9hiEdI12Dg+0bb1PM j9QRyS2F/s+jnRkUgEipz9LgOJ7AuslzXPwew= Received: by 10.141.175.10 with SMTP id c10mr3210461rvp.46.1229954279949; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.194.15 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:57:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560812220557j4ea5d2baybf97c7a7e64badd9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:57:59 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: About the negators In-Reply-To: <96f789a60812220528s702e86tffd8fb964c4550d0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <101615.13333.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <96f789a60812181220tfb3d6c3k56b01d844f9e4075@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560812181329y69bf5672of028ac125047536d@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812190833k22700061i143be7bf997749ce@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560812191005nd881082tddfabf6d283f6494@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812191055s797c629bnf7e749e17902096d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560812191115n270695d3j2b072ab530895f9f@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812191145n3ef5285as8fcbfe18d0dd8e48@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560812191218t57d53b49g2ca4b6cb658f6b47@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60812220528s702e86tffd8fb964c4550d0@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15129 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: >> >> > So how would you negate just the first part (there is someone >> > who is not a broda, but is a brode) using naku and gi'e? >> >> "su'o da broda naku gi'e brode" > > I'm a bit confused about this. Under your rules (naku negates everything > (and only things) to its right), doesn't that mean "X is broda and/or not > brode"? {naku} cannot negate *everything* to its right, only subordinate structures. "gi'e" is above naku (and in fact when you write it in forethought form it becomes clear that it is superordinate and to the left of naku: "su'o da (broda naku) gi'e (brode)" = "su'o da ge (broda naku) gi (brode)". > I hope we get this all straigthened out before I tell you "su'o lo > regerku poi pu batci do na bilma fi loi vidrnreibi". It might make a > difference.... If you don't want to confuse your audience, you are better avoiding na+selbri in the presence of preceding quantifiers, and just use: "no lo re gerku poi pu batci do cu bilma fi loi vidrnreibi" or "me'i lo re gerku poi pu batci do cu bilma fi loi vidrnreibi". mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.