From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Feb 11 10:42:03 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LXK26-0001vl-P9 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:42:02 -0800 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.170]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LXK23-0001vL-8a for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:42:02 -0800 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so274805wfg.25 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:41:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BIx59KxC2ZAgBRScaB+pBXCXTCnuST6l6PbIA76Oj+o=; b=N1sHWA8F/cmvZ4VHUfHJFBPCgH6vO3SjfUN+LX96c0G1ytYE+W1fU91YwvPT6wQdFy kOnngKwzb42MKKOT+xLiBcssYu4V0uWQKdNELCkwmJHywQWNZ7qjfiHEcbOf1KYtmZRK cKpNFHXJNVkV3ingEXvw1I3drRPxDqSB7icME= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sUuJxMW6dgjVLziUG3eFtQhrXiYV0nY3Dfb+QvNix3J4Ky1645oB7fE+DTev+TVVwS ZvBVLO1JeRWlAgu1fSm5y/C/6GJ3z45bjopEB7EKXDboI3xdrfIJOo/iToMeZUQLLTaO 8kF6P6wU87k9Ervi+3K2e6sbDd5bEQt7E6EFk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.96.19 with SMTP id y19mr456055rvl.116.1234377718176; Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:41:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560902110350t31a3f156u89b4c00c06367d69@mail.gmail.com> References: <737b61f30902081336g2818a979sf6a6db307e512c75@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560902091531k16bf93efk7113996d5f786767@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30902091642h7e41234ufc1bdd8e7ddb5f6c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560902100411mc814179h1930114009ce8641@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30902100846g265c604ard1706b5924b4636@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560902100923x15068ee0pbf72da0f1220ac01@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30902102033q6e6bde53l659b817d2eb3883b@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560902110350t31a3f156u89b4c00c06367d69@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:41:57 -0600 Message-ID: <737b61f30902111041p6b93ed2qd5bea252e43c4773@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: CFG prize challenge question From: Chris Capel To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15294 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 05:50, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:33 AM, Chris Capel wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23, Jorge Llambías wrote: >>> >>> sentence = [terms [CU]] selbri [terms] /VAU/ >>> >>> terms = [terms] sumti >>> >>> sumti = KOhA | LE selbri /KU/ >>> >>> selbri = [selbri] tanru-unit >>> >>> tanru-unit = BRIVLA | NU sentence /KEI/ >> >> So making 1=sentence, 2 = le, 3 = KOhA, 4 = nu, 5 = BRIVLA, the >> allowable nestings (parent--child) would be 1--2, 1--3, 2--4, 2--5, >> 4--1. > > Also: 1-4 and 1-5? Ah, yes. Missed those. > How can you tell for example that (1 (3 )3 (5 )5 (3 )3 )1 is valid but > (1 (3 )3 (3 )3 )1 is not valid for this grammar? Is the set of valid > phrases just given, in addition to the allowable nestings, at this > point? You can't. In this respect, the formalism falls short. I hope this will not be considered to invalidate it for its intended, limited purpose. > How is the role of CU taken into account? It's presence/absence will > play a role in whether a preceding )2 can be elided or not. I think CU is more of an elidable "starter" than a terminator. You could make bridi-tail a phrase type if you liked, to make the allowed phrases closer to lojban, but you still wouldn't get the effects of elision modeled properly. Once again, I think the formalism falls short. If I'm able to prove anything interesting with my current formalism, I may try to generalize it some and prove or disprove those same properties. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.