From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Feb 16 02:58:50 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ1BW-0003Sg-Oo for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:50 -0800 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ1BA-0003Qp-UG for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:46 -0800 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so142926eye.58 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=DcMpCaMvN5YsT63lT138L7h024LbtdKO2Z6Nbcu39h0=; b=BVxqIdqCNos16PPIHKYVjdeEg9G6r4dsxr2YeEhrDFQBUe+KcoVlU6/egWj6nu5tB/ 1wG/uqhaLtiQ0h5fbjs2iggPt/qLCn+zrG/9lsPoIy5leZEyY7vbQUlyqG53cy6ZeH6I GEieirsYCx2rHkAnvvhZIYa02zDY9uF2jaI/k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=MY6lJ0gjD7CfpldIkVrP3bb3299zjcfmc0k6UOGgflXnbxujSFhsz3u7xAZkZoX23T LfLbuEgx5BhkMxhCRnXO6R8TJNl6/6xA8NJ/+lzwgiVBSvXu/h+0NNWz0gpIHpAxqbz1 7RgT5L3D/rjow7U1Pdtqs6oMFeats9CwguEcs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.58.17 with SMTP id g17mr3075090eba.149.1234781895173; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:58:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930902160230x66606aaaxb94469b52675addc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4de8c3930902160230x66606aaaxb94469b52675addc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:58:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: nominative-accusative & ergative-absolutive From: Adam Raizen To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c0eca3ca959046307106e X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15317 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adam.raizen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --0015174c0eca3ca959046307106e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:30 PM, tijlan wrote: > Gizon-a | etorri da. > Vir-o | ekalvenis. > lo nanmu | co'i/ba'o klama > > Gizon-ak | mutil-a | ikusi du. > Vir-o | knab-on | vidis. > lo nanmu | lo nanla | pu viska > In Lojban, on the other hand, cases are [...] > It therefore buffers the > difference between the nominative-accusative and ergative-absolutive > languages. It allows a Basque/Tibetan/Mayan etc. speaker to > communicate with an English/Japanese/Esperanto etc. speaker without > being distracted at the aforementioned dissimilarity. > So then does English also buffer the difference between the two, since it also does not morphologically specify case? I think Lojban is as nominative-accusative as it gets. (Predicate logic was invented by people who spoke and were familiar with nominative-accusative languages.) If the correct Lojban for the first sentence were "klama lo nanmu" (not "klama *fa* lo nanmu), then we could probably say that Lojban is ergative-absolutive. -- Adam Raizen Got sente? --0015174c0eca3ca959046307106e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:30 P= M, tijlan <pascal.akihiko@gmail.com> wrote:
Gizon-a | etorri da.
Vir-o | ekalvenis.
lo nanmu | co'i/ba'o klama

Gizon-ak | mutil-a | ikusi du.
Vir-o | knab-on | vidis.
lo nanmu | lo nanla | pu viska
In Lojban, on the other hand, cases are

[...]
 
It therefore buffers the
difference between the nominative-accusative and ergative-absolutive
languages. It allows a Basque/Tibetan/Mayan etc. speaker to
communicate with an English/Japanese/Esperanto etc. speaker without
being distracted at the aforementioned dissimilarity.
=
So then does English also buffer the difference between the = two, since it also does not morphologically specify case? I think Lojban is= as nominative-accusative as it gets. (Predicate logic was invented by peop= le who spoke and were familiar with nominative-accusative languages.) If th= e correct Lojban for the first sentence were "klama lo nanmu" (no= t "klama *fa* lo nanmu), then we could probably say that Lojban is erg= ative-absolutive.


--
Adam Raizen <adam.raizen@gmail.com>
Got sente?
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