From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Feb 18 08:19:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZp8g-00035q-0J for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:19:10 -0800 Received: from mail-ew0-f15.google.com ([209.85.219.15]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LZp8Y-00034T-Dy for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:19:09 -0800 Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so2791642ewy.10 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:18:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8MavzL7PQUqpI4/ECy54UFknYLiIECWW6PtzA+4eLZ0=; b=HoNqQqHZp27hS6rscvd7NugQzC7Ky+ZXA5UbVvulY07RLkCnpUIZ+qB0qjIn6cUOaS yP5qrBdPDHiCsnGPXkxYJdOVVMPK+g+hJjr4pdtqzegHwXQonqXn5yqdawOdTcQi5z+S cILYvpZguaAYnSEXSlcTL6CbKJqq/t8DMSgfA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=wzBJZlOCmfE3HXDlhHUF+Ujvg3kNbqcJDS2NoGnoAx01VNiEb0iABK5++Zb3ZdbgsO 762U4PCyFhDzLwV6Sx28qCDET85M2yB8H1VaBFIUdZtN0+xrYzjSwtxlPVztfIAUgfQx cJybj4OV1U19X/SFtwXY+Q+3khwQAT2ALm9mU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.35.17 with SMTP id i17mr924617ebi.70.1234973935976; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:18:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4de8c3930902160230x66606aaaxb94469b52675addc@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930902160432r494df64ftc404d7df21a5a50a@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930902160552o4fb16ad9pc70ae12ebc25b153@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:18:55 +0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c4048d00988e6f0a Message-ID: <3ccac5f10902180818n7f724542gabddc0a58a864006@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: nominative-accusative & ergative-absolutive From: Cyril Slobin To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15326 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cyril@slobin.pp.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Adam Raizen wrote: > A Basque speaker sees the argument of an intransitive verb (which is always > x1 in Lojban) as occupying the same syntactic role as the object of a > transitive verb (which for our purposes we'll say is x2 in Lojban. It > certainly isn't x1.) A Lojban speaker, who knows the languages, sees x1 and > x2 as syntactically distinct, which is why Lojban's morphosyntactic > alignment is different from Basque's. This has remembered me a motto from CONLANG list maybe ten or so years ago, during du'emoi discussion on accusative/ergative topic: "Murder is just transitive death". -- http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, `it means just what I choose it to mean' To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.