From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 02 16:00:45 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LeI3x-0007j7-RT for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:00:45 -0800 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LeI3u-0007id-LW for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:00:45 -0800 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090303000035.CGIE12934.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@chausie> for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:00:35 +0000 Received: by chausie (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A8C6062D2; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:00:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [lojban] Re: Place structure of "krokoziabra"? From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <20090228042722.GA14667@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <200902272226.15593.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20090228042722.GA14667@sdf.lonestar.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:00:25 -0500 Message-Id: <1236038426.28957.13.camel@chausie.ixazon.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 15338 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 04:27 +0000, Minimiscience wrote: > Firstly, it would be nice if you told us what natural language word you were > trying to make into a {fu'ivla} instead of requiring us to sift through Google > results to figure out what you're talking about. > > Anyway, after realizing that you're referring to "kryakozyabry," I suggest: > > x1 = misdecoded character > x2 = intended character > x3 = proper encoding > x4 = incorrect decoding That seems good and I'll go with it. > Or, if you want a place structure that parallels that of "{fanva}": > > x1 = agent > x2 = intended character > x3 = proper encoding > x4 = incorrect decoding > x5 = misdecoded character That sounds like a good place structure for "srelerfanva", though I'd use that for "make a mistake when transliterating" rather than "transliterate from the wrong encoding". > Also, you might want to create the {fu'ivla} from "mojibake" instead, which > seems to be the more popular term, judging by the fact that it returns almost > ten times as many hits on Google as "kryakozyabry" does, and that "mojibake" is > the name of the Wikipedia article dealing with the concept. Alternatively, it > shouldn't be too hard to come up with a suitable {lujvo} to use instead; > "{spole'u}" and "{pofle'u}" come to mind. "kriakoziabra" and "krokoziabra" (which are variants in Russian; the "-y" is a plural ending) are already valid fu'ivla; "mojibake" is not (though "omjibake" is). Russian is one of the six source languages; Japanese isn't. For {pofle'u} I think the meaning is "x1 is a letter in writing system x2 which doesn't represent x3 because it's broken". Not sure about {spole'u}, but neither lujvo has a place for the two encodings. Pierre To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.